Friday, October 19, 2012

Kevin Trudeau: Rats in our heads, GIN down the toilet... and life goes on

As many of you may know, time is running out for serial scammer Kevin Trudeau to pay his $37.6 million fine to the U.S. Federal Trade Commission (FTC). As reported on this blog late last week, the FTC had until October 15 to respond to the latest contempt motions related to this matter, which Trudeau has been fighting for years. Yesterday, October 18, I saw a copy of that response, as well as corroborating documents, including a statement from Trudeau's former sales and marketing director, Peter Wink. My pal Bernie at put the docs on his site; you can find them on this post.

If you want to get right to it, and haven't seen it already,
the meat of the matter is right here in the FTC's October 15 response (again, the link is courtesy Here's a preview of what's covered in this 17-page document:

There is an amusing twist to this tale. True-dough has often bragged about his billionaire status and lavish lifestyle, using his "perfect" life as a selling point for GIN. However, according to the October 15 document as well as
this July 13 document, he has repeatedly pleaded poverty as a reason he cannot pay the big FTC fine. If this is beginning to sound familar to some of you, it's no doubt because that was the same excuse that Mr. Harmonic Wealth himself, James Arthur Ray, used for not being able to post bail when he was first arrested in early 2010. Turds of a feather, again.

More recently, True-dough has offered to pay the fine in rather paltry installments, as you'll see if you read the October 15 document. (
Here's that link again, for your convenience.)

On the July document, the FTC recommended incarceration for True-dough as the only way to get him to pay the fine. In 22 pages, that document outlined many of the suspicious (to say the least) things that Trudeau has been doing with his multiple bank accounts -- namely, concealment of assets, and even what the writers of the FTC document, described as "money laundering" at a casino. The October document basically confirms the information in the July document, and repeats the call for incarceration.

So... either Trudeau has been lying to his followers about being rich, or he is lying to the FTC about being poor. I concur with the FTC's conclusions that it is the latter, and there are several exhibits to back that conclusion, including Peter Wink's statement, which includes a picture of True-dough's McCastle in the Chicago area. Peter goes into detail about his personal observations regarding True-dough's lavish lifestyle.

Yet until recently True-dough has been telling his followers that he will not pay the FTC fine because he feels it is unjust. Not a word about his inability to pay because he is just a poor boy.

And even at this late hour, he is framing it all as a fight for your rights.
In this October 18, 2012 video, you'll find him once again playing the First Amendment Stuporhero/free-speech martyr role to the hilt. (He even compares himself to Christ on the cross, invoking the "Forgive them, for they know not what they do" theme.) Looking pale and sincere, he goes on and on about how "they" are just out to get him, to kill him figuratively if not literally. As Bruce Willis said in one of my favorite movies, Disney's The Kid, "Somebody call a waaaaaaaaambulance!"

Fake heroes, real opportunists, and grass-roots informants
The other amusing twist to this tale -- well, at least it is amusing to me and perhaps to a few of my allies -- is that not-Doctor Leonard Coldwell, the former Bernd Klein of the Republic of Germany (I first wrote about him
here), is crowing loudly about this matter on Facebook and elsewhere, such as on $28-a-head conference calls. Ever since he got kicked out of GIN and lost his nearly $17,000-per-month speaker fee, not to mention any other residuals and perks he might have been enjoying, Lenny has been dissing his former b.f.f. Kevin Trudeau. But his crowing has become even louder as Trudeau's possible arrest becomes more of a possibility.

For instance, there was this Facebook post on October 12, the day that many of us received the July 13 FTC document that called for Trudeau's arrest:

And he has written other similar Facebook posts since then.

Yet what Coldwell continues to ignore in his posts is the fact that if -- or rather when -- GIN is shut down, and when or if Trudeau gets arrested,
it will be because of investigations by the FTC and other agencies and parties who have had Trudeau's number for years, since long before GIN even existed.

All of the "justice fighters" on Facebook had nothing to do with it. Lenny's ranting had ZILCH to do with it. He would no doubt still be happily sucking on the teat if he hadn't been thrown out. I'm not suggesting that all of his information is inaccurate. He obviously had some inside information about Trudeau, and continues to get it from some of his buddies. But he is not the heroic fighter for truth and freedom in this matter that he claims to be.

GIN is just the latest and possibly greatest scheme to be dreamed up by lifelong con artist Kevin Trudeau. But it is the FTC, et al. who are going to get him -- "The Man," in other words -- as more than one person, totally outside of the ex-GIN Facebook and ex-KT-employee scuttlebutt circles, indicated to me months ago. No, I haven't known all of the details. But I have had a very good general idea about what was happening. The FTC documents are just confirmation of what I already knew or suspected, but didn't want to run my mouth off about prematurely.

So I can't stress it strongly enough: Leonard Coldwell's moonbatty rants on Facebook and on his web sites and on any of his wingnutty blogs or radio shows have had nothing to do with stopping Trudeau. It is, pure and simple, and for better or worse, the government and other authorities that will stop Kevin Trudeau.

What makes this particularly amusing is that, as we know (and as I've mentioned a few times here and on other forums),
Coldwell is no fan of the U.S. government.

On more than one occasion he has, however, recommended to ex-GINs that they contact the FTC, as well as the Illinois Attorney General and other authorities. So as I've also noted before, he has no problem recommending these authorities to nab his ex-buddy, but he insists they have no power to stop him and his wildly-exaggerated cancer-cure claims, or anything else he has done under the banner of his phony degrees.

In any case, I think it's a pretty safe bet that most of Lenny's squawking about Trudeau and GIN has been chiefly motivated by a desire for revenge for being thrown out of GIN, as well as a desperate desire to suck the ex-GIN into his own sales funnels. There was this the other day on Facebook, for example (and between you and me: despite the fact that I know there are indeed real horror stories with GIN, that whole "Roy" tale sounds a little bit contrived).

This was followed by a few Lenny links:

Can you say "crass opportunism," boys and girls?

That said, I do want to acknowledge Bernie at for the hard work he has done on his blog to document the scam that is GIN, without any agenda to sell people worthless
$20k "certification" courses and whatnot. I also give credit to Abe Husein for his grass-roots efforts, beginning early this year, to inform GIN members that something smelled rotten in GINmark. Abe has initiated other efforts that I suspect will pay off very soon as well. And certainly I credit Bob Trudeau, Kevin's beleaguered older brother, who has shared many insights and experiences, and is working on a book about those experiences.

I give due credit to Peter Wink as well for helping disseminate information, including the FTC documents, after he left Trudeau's employment in late April of this year. I also give him credit for any past or present assistance he may have lent to investigators in an effort to keep anyone else from being scammed by Kevin Trudeau. Better late than never.

In all honesty, however, there is a bit of an elephant in the room regarding Peter's willingness to promote Trudeau for two and a half years when, by his own admission, he has known about Trudeau's criminal past since the 1990s. Certainly he knew about it when he went to work for Trudeau and GIN in late 2009. Despite my conversations with him about this, I still find it difficult to believe that he truly thought the leopard had changed its spots. I also find it difficult to believe that Peter ever bought the "Secret Brotherhood" and "secret GIN council" tall tales at all, so if he was responsible for promoting these stories, and creating the marketing copy that promoted them, then it could be said that he was part of the ruse too. I am not suggesting for a moment that he knowingly participated in criminal activities, but for two-and-a-half years he promoted someone who had a past history of doing very dodgy and often criminal things.

Post-GIN, I think Peter is making a huge mistake (and I am being charitable when I call it a "mistake") by continuing to associate with and profit from people such as Lenny Coldwell. Peter is well aware of my feelings, but this is one of those things about which we continue to agree to disagree. Peter has indicated numerous times that we should concentrate on Trudeau and that everything else, including my criticism of Coldwell, Ron Ball, Peter Ragnar, et al., is a distraction. But I have always had a broader focus than Trudeau; after all, Trudeau is far from the only cog in "the big, sick machine." There are many others, and the people who promote them and profit from them are, in my opinion, contributing to the problem.

Convo with a GIN drinker

Needless to say, there has been quite a bit of scuttlebutt about these matters on Facebook and on various blogs over the past week. Last Friday evening, hours after the July FTC docs hit, I received an email from a Trudeau fan and GIN member. It was the beginning of a prolonged conversation, which, in the interest of presenting "the other side," I will share here. And in the interest of preserving my correspondent's privacy, I will just call him... Dick (not his real name).

Hi Connie.  Thanks for speaking out on Dr Lenny.  Kevin Trudeau is refusing to pay the 37 million dollars because then he admits to doing wrong and freedom of speech for this nation is in jeopardy.  If you wanted to write a book, they can stop it.  What's wrong with saying a diet is 'easy'?  Know of anyone that is more on the consumer side that KT?  Thanks
"Dr. Lenny," of course, is Leonard Coldwell. I was not sure if Dick was referring to my speaking out about Lenny on my blog or on Facebook, or both. I've also participated in discussions accompanying the Leonard Coldwell posts on Salty Droid's blog, though I somehow doubt Dick reads Salty Droid. But in any case, of course I had to respond to Dick:
I understand your concerns, Dick, but Trudeau's misdeeds go much further and deeper than his declaration that his diet based on the Simeons hCG protocol is easy. It is a gross over-simplification to say that the FTC's case is based totally on that declaration. That is a story KT tells people to win them to his side, with hopes that they will contribute to his Stand With KT Legal Fund. As I noted on my blog Whirled Musings, in both my latest post (October 12) and my "First Amendment Stuporhero" post (August 2011), I recognize that the issues are not all black and white. I know the government does dodgy and even illegal things all the time. I too worry about the limitations being put on speech and expression, and I think I understand the gist of the Cato institute arguments on behalf of Trudeau. I also wonder if throwing him in jail is the best solution, since he is not a violent criminal.

But IMO Trudeau is a serial scammer, and his scams outweigh any "whistle blowing" or "consumer advocacy" or "free speech advocacy" in which he has ever been engaged. He has a lot of people convinced that he is fighting "for the people" when in reality, he is only fighting for Kevin Trudeau.

As far as I am concerned, he and Coldwell are birds of a feather. They were friends for 20 years (according to statements both of them have made), and Trudeau had to have known about the phoniness of Coldwell's creds, if not all of the allegations of Coldwell's personal misconduct. Only when things finally came to a head, for various reasons that I've heard, was Coldwell booted out of GIN. And that's when Coldwell started ranting against Trudeau. And then we've had
Fred van Liew cluck-cluck-clucking over Coldwell.... so I'm just sitting back shaking my head at the whole pot-meets-kettle scenario that is being played out over and over again.

In a nutshell: believe many good people have been sucked in by Trudeau's charms and trickery, but he is no hero.
Dick responded:
I understand where you are coming from I think.  But you sound like you're working for the FDA and FTC.  Simply, KT is the biggest advocate for the consumer.  "They" want you to think he's a scammer.  Let me know of anyone he's scammed.  I don't want to argue about it though. 
And then, a little later, before I'd had time to respond, this came in...
lol Fred Van Liew clucking.  I stay off of FB.  My group is growing in GIN and for the people that stay off of FB.  GIN's not perfect, but has helped a lot and made people alot of money.  I've made  more than I put in.  But, it's not for everyone. I think Coldwell went crazy. Thanks Connie.

Actually, thanks to some of the intrepid GIN rebels I've "met" on Facebook, I was well aware of True-dough's admonitions about wasting time on Facebook (more on that in a little while). At any rate it was getting late by then, and I had real-life stuff to do, so I waited till the next day to make a point I should prolly have made on my initial email:

Hi, Dick:
One matter I forgot to mention yesterday is that according to people who have listened to Kevin's October 12 GIN Member audio update (not the Affiliate update, but the Member update), Kevin said in that audio that he will be paying the $37.6 million FTC fine soon.

My sense is that if this is true he has decided to pay the fine as a last-ditch desperate effort to stay out of jail. He is rapidly running out of options. It would not necessarily be an admission of wrongdoing and of course he will spin it all for his loyal followers so you guys will get even more angry at the government and will be inspired to give him even more money.

My guess is that for numerous reasons, jail could be imminent even if he pays that fine, but almost certainly he will land there if he does not pay. According to a July 13, 2012 court document
I read (and linked to on my October 12 Whirled  Musings blog post), the FTC has recommended incarceration for KT to coerce him to pay the fine. Lacking payment, they want him to turn over all of his records to prove that he does not have the funds to pay the fine and that his claimed impoverishment was not his own doing.

The document says that KT has made the latter claim: that on numerous occasions he has claimed poverty as the reason he has not paid.

The FTC refutes this claim -- outlining proof that Trudeau lives a luxurious lifestyle; presenting hard evidence that he has worked diligently to conceal assets in the US and overseas and even used a casino to launder money; and that on numerous occasions Trudeau has simply said he refuses to pay the fine and will never pay it.

Now, admittedly some people have gone overboard crowing about this since Friday (Oct. 12), shouting from the rooftops that the FTC has called for "immediate" arrest of KT, and implying that he will either be dragged away in chains at any moment, or that he already has been. One person who has gone overboard is of course that nutcake Coldwell.

These people seemingly ignore the fact that the arrest recommendation is more than three months old. The recommendation for arrest probably carries quite a lot of clout but since KT has not yet been arrested, my guess is that his attorneys bought him some time.

In any case there will be another hearing about this matter on October 24 -- and the link to a document about that is also on my latest blog post ...
Bottom line: Unless I miss my guess, before the month is out, KT will either pay that FTC fine, or end up in jail, or both.

BTW, the FTC and no doubt several other agencies and authorities are wise to GIN as an MLM and get-rich scheme --  a get-rich scheme for KT, that is. If that July FTC doc is any indication, they are on GIN like flies on stink. The document mentions Nevis as a notorious asset haven, for instance  -- something I have been pointing out for a long time as just one of many red flags for GIN members.

My sense is that GIN's days are numbered, and of course I am not alone in this opinion. I am not surprised, through. I have been blogging since late 2009 about what a scam and a sham GIN is. Now the evidence is surfacing to indicate that I was right all along. But I don't credit myself with any great discernment capabilities or investigative prowess. The writing was on the wall from the beginning. The problem is that some people were so blinded by KT's light that they could not even see the wall.
Dick responded:
Thank you. That's too bad we live in times of sensorship.  Have you ever listened to the Your Wish CDs?
Dick was referring to Your Wish Is Your Command, the 14-CD upsell for GIN, and the product that True-dough sold on some of his infomercials. I replied:
I guess we disagree on the definition of "censorship." While the government often over-steps, so too do the hucksters such as Trudeau, who use their "right to free speech" to deceive others in order to get their trust and their money. As I've noted, the issues are not all black and white, but to look upon Trudeau as some kind of hero simply is grossly inaccurate and quite unwise. YMMV, of course.

No, I've not yet listened to YWIYC. Someone sent me a set some time back, and I have read extensive transcripts that others have taken the time to publish, and it seems to me that it's just the same old same old motivational stuff (which is freely available elsewhere), peppered heavily with Trudeau's earnest attempts to suck people into the GIN vortex.
And that's when Dick was sure he had me:
Just as I suspected, you didn't listen to the cds.  Therefore you cannot have an opinion on them.  If you know wher to look, you can find information that is on the cds, but they're presented in a special way so to be usable for the average person.  That's why they have changed thousands of lives and GIN grew so fast and will continue to grow.  The world is ready for this information.  Also, it's only kindergarden, the better information is in the GIN levels.  99% of the negative people were only free affiliates or weak Level Is.  [Name of one of the GIN rebels] is one of them.  He tried to cheat to make a platinum promotion and got caught.  My platinum check has doubled in the last month.
Thanks for your information.  Take care.

I responded:
Oh, Dick. Trudeau WANTS you to believe that if you keep throwing more money at him you will be able to obtain advanced levels of knowledge. If indeed GIN is growing, which I doubt, it is only growing because of Trudeau's powers of persuasion, and his uncanny ability to dangle the carrot of "more info" that will be available at the next level. I can't believe that educated grownups are still buying this. My opinions about Trudeau and GIN have almost nothing to do with what [the named GIN rebel] did or didn't do. I've been through this argument in great detail with another GIN drinker, and have also discussed it with the GIN rebel himself, so I think I know what is going on. It appears to me that GIN was set up so people COULD "cheat" their way to Platinum -- and IMO this was done as a short term money grab for Trudeau. Whether the GIN rebel deserved or didn't deserve his Platinum bonus, he did have the courage to rock the boat when few of the other members were doing it.

And this doesn't even touch on the other dodgy promotional gimmicks that have been presented in the time since GIN came into being -- the unfulfilled Lazy Man leads, the extravagantly pricey "Inner Circle" flopportunities, the $10k Summer Bonanza bonuses that were supposed to be paid months ago, and the like.

So, while I take issue with the GIN rebel's giving Coldwell a pass, a fact of which he is well aware (though I understand why he is doing it), and I will just have to leave it up to others with a better understanding of all of the issues to decide if the GIN rebel and others who have complained do or do not deserve their bonuses, I applaud his efforts to inform people of the scam that is GIN. I will concede that the YWIYC CDs presented widely available information, misinformation, and self-help material in a special way -- but ONLY to sell GIN, not to change people's lives in any way except to empty their bank accounts while replenishing Kevin's. It's brilliant marketing, though. It seems to me that the gist of your argument is that I have no right to an opinion because I have not yet listened to the CDs, but I had Trudeau's number years ago and don't have to listen to YWIYC to know he is still a scammer and that GIN is a scam. (And truly, do you REALLY believe those tall tales about his membership in a "Secret Brotherhood?")

If I may ask a personal question, how much money have you invested in GIN -- including membership levels (if applicable), tools, products, attending events, etc. -- and how much money have you earned as a direct result? And since time is money, how much time have you invested in GIN activities, including trying to persuade others to join GIN?

Dick came back:
I don't want argue. I was hoping you'd be unbiased. I'll give you my money report soon. I still don't know of anyone who didn't get paid for what they were supposed to get nor anyone who did not get money back from the lazy men OT Hotleads. I agree, they shouldn't have given the lazymen to only a couple people in the beginning. Spread it out. 
I was getting a little bored with the exchange, and really didn't expect a money report from Dick. I wanted to end on a peaceful note, so I wrote:
Thanks, Dick. You seem like a good person; I hope you don't lose too much in the long run from your involvement with GIN.
But... lo and behold, back came Dick, spouting some real imaginary numbers:
I'm a small platinum but I've made 3 times what I put in. You won't hear the success stories on FB because most of the successful people (who do the work) do not waste time on FB.  I put in about 20 hours a week.  I don't want to hurt your feelings, but you are not qualified to make opinions about the upgrades and inner circle and things.  Have you ever run a successful business or anything?  GIN has paid millions and millions out to the downline.  about the 10 thousand bonus?  I got 16 and put some of it towards a free cruise for me and the wife and a free trip to Nashville coming this week and still have 10 grand coming.  What are they going to say after it's paid?  You're taking information from a few level I weaklings and losers in life and using it as gospel.  The absolute basic principles in life for those who want to succeed is to stay positive.  At least not negative about others.
Yeah, I've heard about how KT -- or KY, as some of his detractors would have it -- has advised that people who spend time on Facebook are losers. Well, tell that to Fred Van Loony and scads of other GIN drinkers who spend a great deal of time on Facebook. In fact, tell that to True-dough himself, who apparently thinks it is okay to spend four hours a day Facebooking, Tweeting, blogging, and so forth as long as you are doing it on his behalf. Thanks to Abe Husein for this little snippet video that captures Trudeau giving contradictory advice on two separate member update audios. [NOTE: This video has since been removed, apparently due to harassment from GIN forces. ~CC, 10-23-12]

In any case I felt obligated to respond to Dick (and I didn't mention the video linked to above because it didn't exist yet) [and doesn't exist any more, at least not on YouTube ~CC, 10-23-12]:

Don't worry, you're not hurting my feelings. I have been successfully self employed for many years -- some lean years, some good ones. I am happy with what I do. I agree Facebook is often a waste of time. But again, my opinions about Trudeau AND GIN are based on many factors, and have little to do with what the people on Facebook are saying. I have been writing about Trudeau and GIN on my blog since 2009 and only got wind of the GIN disenfranchised this past May. I have taken nothing they say as gospel.

Are you saying that you got paid $16,000 in the 2010 Summer Bonanza bonus deal? The one where if you joined in July of 2010, and remained a member for two years running, you would get $10,000?
(Which, I presume, since you said you got $16k, would mean that you signed up three people during that time who also qualified?)

Did you actually GET that other $10,000 you say you have coming?

Just curious: Are you an Inner Circle member?
Dick answered:
You better be wrong about KT!:) Yes, I signed up 3 that qualified.  I'm using the bonuses for those 3 because they give you an extra 500 for each total of 7500, for upgrades and free events.  And I have 10 in cash coming.  Yes, it should have been here already, but give it some time.  Should be here by November or November at the latest.
My brother is an Inner Circle Member.  Highest Level.  Been by Kt's house.
I can let you listen to an affiliate audio update addressing some things if you want.


A little later he sent me this email, accompanied by a link to the latest weekly Affiliate Update from True-dough.

See if this works.  This is a weekly update given to free affiliates addressing a couple things we're talking about.

I thanked him, and the next day I resumed our convo.

Hi, Dick:
You do know, of course, that it is on the Members weekly update (for October 12, 2012), rather than the Affiliates weekly update, that Kevin said he will be paying the $37 million-plus fine soon, right? IMO it is rather disingenuous of him not to mention that little matter on the freebie update as well, but then it makes sense, as the free Affiliate material is more geared towards getting undecided people to sign up for a paid membership. My sense is that it wouldn't do to let the non-paying affiliates know that the fearless leader may be capitulating to the FTC; it might discourage them from signing up to become a paid GIN member.

I have a few more questions about your interests in GIN, if you don't mind. Actually this is more about your brother. You say he is an Inner Circle member. Did he join at the $50,000 level or during the $75,000 promotion? Has he received any real benefits, beyond having been to Kevin Trudeau's leased home in the Chicago area (for which Trudeau pays $12k a month in rent)?

Does your brother have a family or someone for whom he is responsible, and if so, to your knowledge are they comfortable with him spending $50k or $75k to be part of Trudeau's "inner circle?" Just curious.

I can imagine that as an Inner Circle member your brother would have even more of an interest than you in believing in GIN and Trudeau -- and equally as important, in convincing others to believe -- since he has put out so much money. KT and his followers love to ask, "Who do you listen to?" If you listen to your brother you might consider that his vested interest may be blinding him to some of the realities of what is really going on. 


Well, Dear Ones, I have to say that apparently this not sit well with Dick, who shot back:
Connie. If you knew what I knew, you would laugh at yourself. Your so very unqualified to even ask such questions. You have no credibility. A guy who's sold 50 million books and all his businesses has plenty of money. Kevin does not need GIN. You do. You can call me if you'd like to discuss this further, but I'll just be debating with someone who does not matter. 

I did not respond, due to being occupied with real-life stuff again. It was fun stuff, so fun that it almost made up for the heartbreaking, gut-wrenching revelation that I do not matter. But I did notice that Dick did not answer the questions I asked about his brother. I suppose they really were none of my business.

A little later Dick sent this:

There's a good Rats in your head audio for you that just came down. Connie, focus on the winners. 
The rats that are in my head, and yours, according to Kevin True-dough, are those negative naysayers such as the mainstream media and so forth. This audio has provided the GIN-soaked minions with yet another mindless cliche to fight the growing legion of critics.
I responded to Dick:
Lots of people hate rats, but rats are smart animals. They are survivors. At the very least, they are smart enough to try to escape a sinking ship.

And my guess is that the GINtanic is sinking fast, and Trudeau's crew is well aware of it. But they will continue to reassure the passengers as the orchestra plays its favorite tune, "Nearer My Fraud to Thee."

For the record, though I did not mention this to Dick, I think rats can be pretty darn cute. At any rate, Dick was clearly not amused by my reply, and responded:
Again Connie. You're unqualified and broke. 
And then when I didn't reply, I got this:
LOL Gintantic, I heard that one before.  Let's just wait and see.  I appreciate you emailing with me.  I have to go now.  I love that you're so passionate about things.  Take care.  Let's stop emailing and see, thanks.
Yes, Dick, you may very well have heard 'GINtanic' from me, either on my blog (I think it was back in May when I first used it), or somewhere on Facebook. In any event, I honored Dick's request to not email him any more.

But then, just a couple of days ago, I got this:

Here is the audio!  I'll let you respond once after you listen to this since I bothered you first:)  I know I can't change your thinking on GIN, your beliefs were extablished years at on Trudeau.  But again, you're getting your information from 3rd parties that never really had much skin in the game.  Most of the positive and successful ones have no time for FB and arguing. I'd like to go on there and talk about Coldwell and his overpriced products, but nah.

Embedded in the message was an email announcing Trudeau's "rats in your head" audio. The link has been quite widely distributed, so I have no qualms about posting it here. So here it is.

Dick is, of course, quite wrong about people who don't have "skin in the game" not being qualified to give information about something. Sometimes not having "skin in the game" allows one to look at things much more objectively. Having said that, I think it was mighty big of Dick to "let" me respond once after I listened to the audio he sent.

My response is this blog post.

I suppose I owe Dick a debt of gratitude not only for providing me with an easy blog post, but also for reiterating all of the most common pro-GIN arguments concisely so I don't have to re-invent the wheel. Honestly, though -- Dick, L.E., and the many others who have tried to talk some sense into my rat-filled head -- I wish all of y'all well, and if you need moral support when the GINtanic finally sinks, I'm here.
So is

Meanwhile, many of the pro-GIN troops are now gathering at
the GIN Family Reunion in Nashville, which goes from today through Sunday, October 21 at the Gaylord Opryland Resort. There has been some speculation about whether or not True-dough will even show up at the event, but I rather think he will. After all, word is that he has another ground-floor bizop for them! (Prolly has something to do with the cartons and cartons of expired KT Daily Vitamins supplements that he can't get rid of.) I have a feeling, however, that Nashville, and post-Nashville, will prove to be interesting. And I will be sure to provide links, as soon as I get them.

For now, though, here's the deal, as I see it from my Whirled: It's more likely than not that eventually Trudeau will end up in jail, or even prison, for who knows how long, on who knows how many charges. The contempt charges related to the FTC fine are just a small part of it. Other investigations have been ongoing; I know that much.

Beyond that, I am not going to mouth off with predictions about exactly when and where GIN will meet its demise and Trudeau will be stopped from scamming (at least he will be stopped for a while; remember, prison didn't stop him before). It's just a matter of time, though, because, as I have been writing for years, Trudeau is a scammer and GIN is a scam.

Now if you will excuse me, I need to go feed those rats, because they are making quite the racket.

PS added on Monday, 22 October 2012:
As I have noted before, citing this August 17, 2012 document, a status hearing had been scheduled for this coming Wednesday, October 24, 2012, to determine if an evidentiary hearing is required in connection with the FTC's Motion to hold Defendant Trudeau in Contempt. To misquote something Biblical, "There will be hearings and rumors of hearings..." More recently I have heard, but presently have nothing to link to substantiating it, that there will be an arraignment on Tuesday, October 30, 2012, presumably to make a decision about such matters as whether or not Kevin Trudeau will indeed be incarcerated. I have only been told that October 30 will probably be "a big day." But again, this is just speculation, since I have not been able to independently verify this information. There could be more eleventh-hour stall tactics, and Trudeau could indeed end up paying the $37.6 million fine, or at least enough of it to placate the FTC temporarily, and thus be able to stay a free man for a while longer. At this point, as far as I know, there are no guarantees one way or the other. But that doesn't stop Lenny Coldwell from continuing to crow about the prospect of his former good buddy in jail...

More True-dough on this Whirled:

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RevRon's Rants said...

As you and I have discussed previously, if one is to "give due credit" to someone for engaging in the practice of "exposing" his previous employers and supposed "dear friends," it is only appropriate to make the person accountable for promoting the scammer in the first place. That is especially true when it is a historical pattern.

Cosmic Connie said...

Good points, Ron. I know it seems I go overboard in my efforts to be "fair," and that this may come across as wimpy. However, I was only giving credit to Peter for sharing the latest FTC documents, and I do appreciate that. My understanding is that he continues cooperate with the Feds in the investigations so I consider him to be a source of information. Not exactly like a C.I. on the cop shows, but kind of like that.

As for accountability for his years with Trudeau, I don't know how it is possible to "make someone accountable" who has his story and sticks to it. Peter and I had a discussion about this on Facebook back in July. It doesn't seem to be on his page any more (maybe I just can't find it; the Timeline thing is kind of squirrelly). But it was around July 18. I had copied and pasted most of the exchange so I will re-create it the best I can here.

Peter started out by promoting my blog.

"Hi Everyone. While Connie Schmidt and I do not always agree, there are some things we are totally aligned on. Read her blog "Whirled Musings." She is one of the best bloggers online whether you agree with her or not. Funny as heck too!"
Whirled Musings

I responded: "Thanks, Peter. At least we agree about KT now!"

He wrote back: "My opinion is the same from day one. I've been around him off and on since the 90s. Same guy same predictability. Everything went as predicted."

I wrote: "You still think he [KT] is the sweetest, most sincere guy around, and that anybody would want to work with him? Just trying to understand." [I was quoting what Peter had told me on the phone in late 2009 about Trudeau, shortly after he went to work for him. I had quoted him on that in my "Conversations With Peter Wink Part 2" blog post.]

Peter responded: "I will explain all this to you when we do our follow up interview. Personally I'm happier where I'm at. Learned a lot. Did a lot. I was smart enough to set myself up for this a year ago. Reporting to Kevin Trudeau directly had its good points. The reality is that I've changed a lot over the past three years and have very public ambitions. Therefore, to publicly comment about my former superior (employment wise) or any of his followers would have no reward for me. Unfortunately I believe the whole house of cards will absolutely come down soon, so getting out and doing bigger things was the right recipe. I just hope all the members and affiliates do not lose everything they have. I also hate to see all my former co-workers unemployed, which seems inevitable as most of them know nothing about the financial realities which were scary at best. When this all crashes I have a great opportunity for all the former members anyway."

And yes, I have called Peter out on the MLM that he and Lenny Coldwell have been involved in since they got out of GIN. But he has said repeatedly, both publicly and privately, that he only wants to focus on bringing KT to justice. So as far as I can see, I can demand "accountability" regarding the larger scheme of things all I want, but it is wasted energy.

RevRon's Rants said...

"Therefore, to publicly comment about my former superior (employment wise) or any of his followers would have no reward for me."

I guess the "reward" somehow materialized for him after the termination of his relationship with Vitale, and again, after the termination of his relationship with Trudeau. Makes one wonder how long it will be until he the terminates the relationship with Coldwell (or until Coldwell terminates it) and Wink finds the same "reward."

Cosmic Connie said...

Continuation of the conversation with "Dick,| who wrote to me from Nashville this past weekend, while apparently having the time of his life. Though he had earlier told me he didn't want to argue any more and he thought we should stop emailing, apparently he just could not stay away. The first message is one I got from him last night, and you can follow it from there. Due to Blogger’s character limitations for comments, I’ll have to do this in two parts.

From: Dick
Re: Nashville GIN Event!!!

This is incredible!!!! BB Kings last Thursday night with the Platinums!!! Forget the 2 people on FB that haven't actually been to an event. This is growing!!! Wow!

From: Cosmic Connie
Re: Nashville GIN Event!!!
Glad you are having fun. These events have a way of making people giddy. They are planned that way, calculated to manipulate you, to get you pumped so you will give Kevin more money.

Speaking of money, did you get your $10,000 bonus check yet?

Has Kevin talked about his upcoming arraignment later this month?

Enjoy the party while it lasts because it may be the last one for a while. And consider taking that money you were thinking of throwing into the Stand With KT Defense Fund toilet, and buying your wife something nice with it.

From: Dick
Re: Nashville GIN Event!!!
Lol! I was wondering what you were going to say.

From: Cosmic Connie
Re: Nashville GIN Event!!!
You should know by now that I am predictable. So what is the new ground floor biz-op KT is offering at this event? Another chance to sell boxes of his vitamins that he can't get rid of otherwise? Anyway, have fun, but hang on to your wallet.

From: Dick
Re: Nashville GIN Event!!!
I wasn't able to read this email because of the 'rats' audio. But on the other one, I'm making money. They gave me an extra $500 for each of the three $2000 I use for upgrades and events. I was going to take the money and upgrade and go to events because its fun to meet people and learn how to provide for my family abundantly anyway, and this way I get more. Plus the 10 grand! Did it happen somewhere your husband or bf didn't buy you something? It's about investing in yourself. This information isn't Kevin's. I would never be able to have his training without this club with the income I made before. In the rats audio you heard what happens to people who are obsessed with others; instead, maybe take that desire and focus it on your personal goals!

To be continued...

Cosmic Connie said...

(Continued from previous comment)
From: Cosmic Connie
Re: Nashville GIN Event!!!
So let me get this straight. As we clarified in a previous email, the original deal was that you would get $2,000 cash for each person whom you signed up for the 2010 Summer Bonanza -- each person who qualified for the $10k themselves, that is. You signed up three folks who qualified, making your "bonus bonus" $6,000. This extra $6,000 was to be in addition to your own $10,000 qualification bonus, which you would get if you remained a dues-paying member for 24 consecutive months, and attended at least one live event. Okay, I got that so far. However, you told me earlier that you chose to apply that extra $6k towards tools, upgrades, etc., and that you also got to go to Nashville for free as part of it. (I think I understood you correctly on that point.) All of this was in lieu of cash.

Yet you are still expecting $10k in cash (check). 'Kay... got that.

Now you say that for each of those three extra $2k "bonus bonuses" you spend on upgrades and events, you will get an extra $500. So if you spend the entire promised $6k on upgrades and events, you will get a total of $1,500 in cash, right? Which means that GIN will only have to give you $1,500 instead of $6,000. Heck of a savings for them. That is, unless they decide to offer you yet another non-cash option to cover that $1,500, such as...let me go out on a limb here and take a wild, wild guess... more tools and upgrades! Which means they don't have to give you any of that $6k in cash. An even sweeter deal for them!

And of course I am assuming that you still haven't received the $10k cash for your own Summer Bonanza qualification. I know, I know, you say that you are waiting on it and that these things take time and that you expect it to be paid some time in November. Or later. But you still believe it will be paid.

Unless, of course, you decide to "invest" in yourself further and take a non-cash option for the whole kit and caboodle. I suspect that is what they really want you to do. And if you get drunk enough and/or high enough on the vibes at the event, you just may decide to do what they want you to do.

But jeez, it still sounds to me as if you are spending more actual cash than you are getting, and of course the deficit will only be larger if you don't get that $10k check -- which, I am given to understand, is still up in the air. No doubt you will tell me about all of the intangible benefits of GIN participation, particularly with the events -- e.g., meeting people, having fun, getting drunk, listening to music, having smoke blown up your a$$, being part of a mass illusion that you are somehow raising your own "vibes" and the vibes of the world, making "lasting friendships," and so forth.

(And by the way, contrary to what you seemed to be saying in your email the other night, almost all of the GIN naysayers and critics on Facebook with whom I have communicated have in fact been to numerous live GIN events -- including leadership cruises. They experienced the same giddy highs you did. But then they came down, which seems to be an inevitable part of the cycle.)

(To be continued)

Cosmic Connie said...

(Continued from previous comment)

You asked: "Did it happen somewhere your husband or bf didn't buy you something?" LOL, guess again, Dr. Phil. If anything, my fiance buys me too many things. He bought me a piano the other night at an auction, and I didn't even know I wanted one. (We ended up putting it back on the block because nobody wanted to mess with moving a piano, and I didn't want to mess with rearranging the room where we would have to put it. Easy come, easy go.). No, my deal is that I've just been sensitized, perhaps over-sensitized, by reading and hearing too many accounts, over the years, from people whose spouses or loved ones went off the deep end in GIN and other "success" programs and biz-ops, and ended up neglecting their spouses and their kids. It is a story that is played out over and over and over. You can't entirely blame the scam or the scammer, of course; people do have to take responsibility for their actions. But the scammers can be powerfully persuasive.

Moreover, I am very well aware that the problem is much larger than GIN and Trudeau. GIN is just one example of a scam, and Trudeau is just one scammer. There are many others.

Your own goal to provide for your family abundantly is admirable. But have you actually been able to provide for them better because of GIN, or are you just banking on the promises that GIN and KT and his minions make -- you know, those promises that if you advance far enough in the "training" (i.e., the paid membership levels) you will learn the skills to provide more abundantly for your family? Or are you banking on making a lot of money from the MLM side of the business? You don't have to answer these questions unless you want to; after all, it is none of my business, really. But you should ask yourself these questions, and be honest in your answers.

As it happens, I am indeed focused on my personal goals. And one of my personal goals is to help prevent people from being scammed; towards that end, I am currently involved in a fledgling nonprofit initiative to educate people about scams and scammers.


And that's it so far. I know I am probably wasting my time, but I just felt I had to make another stab at talking some sense into him.

hHh said...

That's an interesting letter about the jurisdiction of the courts, admiralty law and all that because I've seen stuff like that before. There's an org called The People's United Collective, started by a guy called John Harris, here that promote the idea of the illegitimacy of English law, or certain aspects of it, based on a conflict between common law and contractual, commercial legislative law.
The idea is that most of what passes as law is not, and is rather of a contractual nature and can only be enforced with consent of the policed and governed.
So, for example, you get a speeding ticket. In this interpretation you would not consent to paying it, insisting it was contractual and you do not wish to enter into a contract thanks all the same.
Legal bodies are seen as being truly corporate, commercial ventures, and there's a lot of stuff about law of the sea, commercial admiralty law etc., and the idea that humans are contractually sold into the system at birth. Well, that's kind of true, but whether birth of a human and birth of a ship are really the same in the law dictionaries I don't know.

There was a case recently where a guy got a court summons, and turned up but refused to acknowledge the legitimacy of the court for the sort of reasons your man lists - commercial law, contractual, doesn't consent to it etc. It seemed to work for so long, and caused a bit of a stir, but recently I think he had succumbed to the court system and had to eat some real humble pie.
Whether this is all based on truth or not, I don't really know, though I thought it was pretty interesting I don't have time for research.

I do know that it is popular among conspiracists and occult lore exponents - you've got Icke and Jordan Maxwell on about it a lot. Still waiting for a big lizard head to turn up on our coins.

I think what your snarget will find is that despite protestations of common law the gov still have the cuffs and billy clubs.

Hhh said...

Here we go, Freeman on the Land and common law. This is a UK example but the same sort of broad principles are claimed for the US I believe.

[Council Tax, BTW, is a local authority tax for public services - street lights, garbage collection etc.]

[And I apologise if this turns out to be a bit irrelevent to your stuff]

[I may have started on the wrong post with this, BTW]

hhH said...

Connie, Connie, you'll like this..

hhh said...

Sorry 'bout the quality of the video I didn't really check it properly, but there are lots more out there on the same theme.

Kenny G. said...

Well it appears that my deluded friend I mentioned earlier this year is attending this Nashville conference. At great expense I'm sure, spending what little money she has on this fraudster as he desperately clings to his liberty. It's absolutely heartrending, to see her oblivious to his fate and ignoring the pleas of her family and friends. It will hopefully put her on the slow road to recovery when this sociopath is behind bars.

Anonymous said...

Well I have known Kevin a long time and also Peter Wink. Peter Wink is a 100% rock solid flake. He will put his nose up anyone's butt if they pay him and then turn on them when the weather turns. He is a flat out liar with zero loyalty and trust. He will say whatever pleases those at the time and he will do anything for money and then change colors and act innocent. He cannot be believed fully. This is why Nightengale _COnant let him go. He is desperate and soulless. Kevin T is a brilliant liar and also very Brilliant!. He exposed the FTC, FDA for their massive corruption and collusion with Big Pharma etc and I and many are thankful he had the balls to do that. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to know that that's a major reason why they are after him, and yes he is no angel, thats for sure.