Thursday, May 31, 2012

Paging Dr. C: Bernd bridges in Deutschland?

When I publish factual errors on this blog it is never intentional, and I always appreciate it when people correct me. I am more than willing to publish corrections when I get them. At the time I originally wrote and published this blog post on May 31, 2012, I was a tad confused about a very interesting late-1990s German Web site that seemed to document some legal actions by and/or against the subject of this post, "Dr." Leonard Coldwell, the former Bernd Klein, aka Bernd Witchner, of Germany. I am limited because I cannot read German, and the Google translation into English was rough and bumpy, to say the least. So I published my speculation about what I thought the document said, though I provided a link to both the original German and the English versions, so that people who were interested could see for themselves and perhaps could help me with corrections. I did, however, make it clear that I wasn't really sure exactly what the German issues were all about.

Recently a friend of this blog, who lives in Germany and is fluent in German, clarified things for me. I'm sorry this is a bit overdue, but both my friend and I have had many other things on our respective front burners. However, better late than never. And the basic points of my original post are still valid, as is its purpose: to encourage people to question not only the credentials, but the credibility, of the man who claims to have The Only Answer to Cancer.

Just so things will be extra clear, I will publish the new text in this lovely manly color
(RGB 234-153-153), in tribute to the little man who "can rock pink like a Boss," as one of his devoted followers recently put it (it was somewhere on Facebook). I hope this color is not too hard on your eyes against this dark background.
~CC, September 2012

* * * * *
The fleeing GIN members are still out there looking for a toilet to flush their money in...

Dr. C. is the first step for many of them.
~ A correspondent who is concerned about a dear friend who got sucked into the GIN/KT/Coldwell vortex
(but who, thankfully, is waking up)

This is a tale of "Dr." Leonard Coldwell, recently divorced from serial scammer Kevin True-dough and True-dough's Ponzi-ish Global Information Network (GIN). Lenny is the guy who has the Only Answer to many things: Cancer, Stress-Anxiety-Depression, and Tyranny among them, about which he has produced books and other infoproducts. (That Tyranny book I linked to can be had on Amazon for as little as $707.37!) He also has The Only Answer to Success, though I find that a little puzzling. Are we to understand that Success is a disease or a problem like Cancer and Tyranny?

Anyhow, once upon a time Lenny lived in Germany and was named Bernd Klein. Or sometimes Bernd Witchner. The son of Gerda Raudszus and Julius Klein, Bernd was an ambitious man who, in his heyday in Deutschland, had quite a string of health-huckster bidnesses going. Things were going well for a time, and Bernd, if we are to believe the part of the story that he tells today, was curing and helping people by the thousands.

But then the German anti-cult peoples stepped in, some time in the mid to late 1990s. That may very well be just the tip of the iceberg of Bernd's troubles in his native land, but I honestly do not know the whole story...yet. I wish I could read German. If I could, I would have a better understanding of this page on the Web site, which is dedicated to "Information on cults...and the psycho-market."

Here is the awful Google English translation.

This page was initiated in 1998, which was the same year that Bernd changed his name to Leonard Coldwell.
Here's a PDF of the name-change petition. I haven't been able to find out why he changed his name, and why he chose "Leonard Coldwell." Maybe he can explain it.

I hasten to add that there is nothing intrinsically evil about changing one's name legally. Entertainers do it all the time, and many authors use pen names. But I can't help observing that many sleazy players in the selfish-help industry have done it too, beginning (in the modern era) with
John Paul Rosenberg, who changed his name to werner erhard and inflicted est/The Forum/Landmark Education on the world. Not that the name change issue alone marks Bernd/Lenny as sleazy, but I wonder why he couldn't have just decided to be "Coach Bernie" or "Dr. Bernie." That would have been acceptable to Americans, I'm sure.

I suppose it is possible that Bernd just wanted to totally dissociate himself from his abusive father. He hints at a thoroughly unpleasant childhood
in this interview on "Mum's Not Having Chemo," an alternative-cancer-treatment blog.

Interviewer: You mention you’ve had your car bombed and you’ve been shot at. What do you do now to protect yourself ?
Dr C: I have death threats – about twenty a day – but I do not have any fear. All my life I lived with the fear that my father is beating my sick mother to death when he was drunk, or the fear that my mother would be dead when I came back from school. All my life -when I came from school- I opened up the bedroom door to see whether my mother was still alive. And one day I made the decision that from now on I will live like this day will be my last.  I will tell all my loved ones what I feel and I will treat anybody like I would meet them the very last time today.

But what about the legal action I mentioned? As I said, I've found it a little difficult to understand those Web sites I linked to above. But as I noted in my revised prelude above, I have received more details since this post was first published. The information I now have still does not really explain why Bernd left Germany -- though nonetheless it makes him look pretty dodgy (not to mention pretty silly) -- but it will clarify some points about which I was not clear in the beginning.

My able translator is long-time friend of this blog Yakaru, who has a wonderful blog of his own, Spirituality is No Excuse. Though not German (he hails from Oz), Yakaru lives and works in the Fatherland and, totally unlike yours truly, is fluent in the native tongue. Yakaru says he welcomes any further corrections to his own efforts, particularly from those who have an understanding of the German court system. I welcome them too, believing that this blog post is a work in progress.

Here is what Yakaru wrote to me about the information on that German Web site:

The interpretation on your post is slightly wrong, which is not surprising, given German legalese is hard enough for a native speaker -- let alone someone using a Google translation.

Coldwell brought a civil case against Karin Paetow-Froese, who is in a community group that raises awareness about cults. (
That German website is run by this group.) He was complaining about her saying he used cult-like methods similar to Scientology. He was trying to get an injunction to prevent her from saying those things publicly.

The move clearly backfired because this woman had only made those statements in private, in the context of giving her opinion as a member of that anti-cult group, to members of the public (apparently Coldwell's stool pigeons)
[more on that in a little while ~ CC] who inquired if Coldwell was brainwashing people.

That is, she hadn't even said those things publicly, but he was already trying to get an injunction to stop her in advance.

Not surprisingly, the court rejected it and noted that her statements were now on the public record anyway, thanks to his lawsuit.
Good job, Bernd! You're all about the free speech and the expression of opinions, and you always have been, it seems... for you, anyway. But not so much when it comes to people who want to criticize you and your schemes. Alas, all of your efforts to trample on their rights only make you look more foolish.

Yakaru continued:

Other documents on the site include the original of his letter to the court -- an incredibly petty and litigious piece of whining. He was complaining, for example, that Ms. Paetow-Froese had used the present tense when referring to "Bernd Klein" instead of the past tense [as he had changed his name to Leonard Coldwell ~ CC]. (There's a particular verb, "heissen" which is involved. He complained that she used “heisst” (present) instead of "hiess" (past).)

And he also claimed to have received numerous anonymous phone calls saying that Ms. Paetow-Froese is herself a Scientologist. This is especially stupid, given that the group she belongs to is openly connected to the Lutheran Church, as well as
the CDU [Christian Democratic Union] political party.

There is also a list of companies with which Coldwell claimed to have been running his Fit for Life program, including Lufthansa and IBM. However, the site
[making this claim] disappeared a few months after it was put up in 1999, after a German TV documentary exposed it as a fraud and talked to reps of the various companies Bernd had claimed to work with, who denied any knowledge of him.

Bernd's name change documents are also on the site. It's extremely unusual for Germans to even think of changing their name, and the laws here are very strict. Basically you have to be a recognized artist or author with work published under the name you to change to.

He actually did the name change in the US and then complained to the court -- barely a year later -- when Ms. Paetow-Froese failed to grammatically acknowledge it was no longer his name.

He used a PO Box from the US as his contact address, which the court refused to accept. Eventually, the court reluctantly accepted his address as being “care of” his mother's address!

This is also really strange for Germans, and totally unheard of for legitimate business people. There is an entire department in Germany that collates peoples' addresses, and basically nothing is possible if you are not registered at an address. I can't begin to explain how weird that is. It would be almost like bringing a lawsuit in the US and refusing to give your name. The fact that he even tried it suggests a highly peculiar psychology...

Of course if Bernd...I mean Leonard... was already established in the US at the time of the lawsuit, it might not be so odd that he didn't have a registered German address. Then again, why would he be suing an obscure (to those in the US, anyway) German woman over a basically nonexistent issue, i.e., something she said about him in private to other Germans? Yakaru added in a subsequent comment:

And in any case, the fact that he didn't know how to address a German court appropriately (i.e. the US address and the fake Dr title) shows he's really got a screw loose. No German would do that! Some cliched loud mouth American might do it, but no native German, and certainly no businessman.

Fit For Life, by the way, was not originally a Bernd Klein shtick. It
was/is a Harvey and Marilyn Diamond franchise, which hit the big time in the 1980s with the publication of the Diamonds' best-selling book by the same name, and continued into the 1990s. But Bernd apparently had some business interests with Harvey for a while in the late 1990s, and they did at least one gig together in Florida in the summer of 1999, according to the documents on the German web site.

Word has it that the Diamond-Coldwell relationship ended on a very sour note, with Lenny complaining about not getting the money he was owed. I don't know details but if true, it may point to Bernd having a long history of complaining about being screwed by his business partners and just about everyone else he worked with. Kevin Trudeau is evidently not the first person to have deceived and cheated him, according to Lenny's spin, anyway. Oh, goodness, why do such bad things happen to such good men?

I do want to clarify, to the best of my ability, the speculation about Coldwell and Scientology, since some of what I originally wrote may have been confusing, and some of my readers are apparently convinced that Coldwell himself was/is a Scientologist. Despite those opinions, he has insisted he is not.
His ex-buddy Trudeau has expressed admiration for Scientology and Dianetics, and has recommended both on numerous occasions (such as in this office memo from 2003), but Coldwell has indicated that he's no friend of El-Ron. In fact, he has often warned against cults (and cult leaders), apparently without a trace of irony. Yakaru elucidates on the Scientology issue:

Regarding Coldwell and Scientology, he explicitly states in his letter to the court that he's not a Scientologist. Part of his claim was that it's defamatory to call him a Scientologist and damages his business. So if there was evidence for him actually being a member, he'd be guilty of lying to the court. (I don't know if that's also called perjury in a civil case).

I doubt that he would be SO stupid as to take someone to court under such circumstances if he really was a Scientologist.
Fair enough, but at the very least, as noted above, some people in Germany did apparently feel strongly that Coldwell was practicing cult-like tactics in his own work. Yet when one of them privately expressed that opinion, presumably in an effort to help others, Coldwell did his best to shut her up -- as he has been continuing to try to do to his critics since he moved Stateside. Later on in this post, in the first paragraph under the section titled, "Snark tank," I link to a 2010 blog post ("Obama Hoax Chump of the Day") that dared to make fun of Lenny. Follow that link, and you will see that a "Dr. Hohn MD" threatens to expose the blogger's sordid past and publish it. "Dr. Hohn" (who in this case is almost certainly Lenny pretending to be Dr. Hohn) groused:
Who is paying you?
Dr Leonard Coldwell Cured Former President Ronald Reagan from colon cancer – I was part of the treatment – So where do you get paid from to waste your time to protect Berry Seotoro alias B. Hussein Obama ?
Its too obvious you government looser Dr Hohn MD
and of course you will not publish this comment – that will proof my point plus I just ordered an investigation about your person and past – I will publish it – my website is the most visited site on the net in regards of health – Dr Coldwell is the Author of 14 best selling books his Videos The Only Answer to Cancer is on 1. 4 million websites and the book with the same title is sold out in 3 Editions already within 4 month after publication. You will hear from me again lets publish the truth about you
But I am getting ahead of myself. Here's more from Yakaru:

This is kinda funny though:
There are strict laws in Germany about who can call themselves "Dr" -- it's restricted to people who have a real doctorate (novel idea, I know!), so Coldwell's letter to the court is signed "Dr. Leonard CoIdwell, Post Box 3432 Warrenton, V.A. 20188 USA." I imagine that this is not only because he didn't have a registered German address, but also because he'd be prosecuted for calling himself Dr in Germany.

The court refers to him as:
Herr Bernd Witchner, [born] Klein
(vorher unter dem
Kuenstlernamen: Leonard Coldwell im Rechtsstreit aufgetreten) [previously appearing in court records under the "artist name" Leonard Coldwell]

So the German court doesn't recognize his name change, and refuses to even mention his US "Dr" title.....

By the way, when I recently mentioned to Yakaru that some people have speculated that Coldwell left Germany because he was no longer allowed to practice his doctorin' there, Yak replied:

I couldn't find anything on that site saying he's not allowed to work in Germany any more, but Germany strictly regulates anyone who offers any kind of service publicly. There is a standard woo diploma here which every spiritual person seems to have, and without it you can't practice. If Coldwell doesn't even that lowly degree, then he's not even qualified to scratch himself. That credential is
Heilpraktiker. [More about Coldwell's creds, or lack thereof, are below. ~CC]

In a subsequent communication to me, Yakaru elaborated on some of the points about the court ruling:

Coldwell also claimed damages in the amount of 50,000 Marks (this was pre-Euro) (probably about $30,000), but the court reduced his claim to 5,000 Marks (they can do that kind of thing here!), which meant it could be heard at a local court.

The court reduced the sum because the case was about preventing statements made in private being made public. But the court states specifically (this is point 1 in the court's decision) that the complaint is admissible. This is in the document titled "Urteil" -- which means "verdict." [Yet point 2] says it is Unbegrundet -- which means literally ungrounded -- unfounded.

The reasons given in point 2 are that Paetow was consulting in her role as member of a registered sect-awareness group, used news articles in support of her position, and the "witnesses" clearly requested her opinion. And of course because she hadn't repeated the claims publicly yet.

Point 2b states that the court sees no need to prevent her from repeating the statements publicly because she clearly stated that those particular opinions were expressed in in private, in her role as a consultant for the anti-sect group...

...The court certainly gave him a ding on the head for bringing a frivolous case, as far as I can read between the lines, and was clearly disturbed by the irregularities in his behavior (fake Dr title, no proper address in Germany, frivolous case.)

Regarding that claim (mentioned above) about stool pigeons, Yakaru wrote:

It's also plainly clear (though not proven) that the two witnesses were stoolies that Coldwell sent along to ask leading questions and attempt to trigger a defamation. In my opinion that's clear enough from the documents that it fully deserves a "probably" rather than a "possibly."

On the other hand, it could have been Coldwell himself, pretending to be someone else. Several others have told me that Coldwell has a practice of disguising himself in order to "test" people -- or entrap them.

Yakaru continued:
As far as I can see, Paetow is ... a counseller/consultant... for that anti-sect group. She had spoken to the media previously, and that's probably what made Coldwell seek revenge. On my reading, the case is about personal revenge and shutting up a critic rather than dealing with any serious threat to his livelihood.

The site also said that Coldwell claimed to have worked with a list of companies including Lufthansa and IBM (they're listed in a column), and that a TV documentary uncovered that he hadn't worked with them. If he was also not qualified to, I could not tell from that document.
According to Yakaru -- and after careful consideration I tend to agree -- the real story about that lawsuit may just be that there is no story, at least not of the scandal-mongering kind. Nevertheless it reveals much about Bernd. Wrote Yak:
He just made an ass of himself in a frivolous lawsuit and demonstrated that he prizes vanity over business sense... If he'd ignored Ms. Paetow-Froese, no one in the English speaking world would have heard of her. Instead he (seems to have) used a couple of stooges to try and provoke some slander, and then put the slander on the public record himself in his own statutory declaration and consequent judge's ruling.

And done it so ineptly that he got his butt kicked by the court for not having an address and having a fake doctorate.

I think that's worth a laugh!
And I agree, particularly with the part about Bernd making an ass of himself. No offense to asses, of course. I happen to be fond of donkeys.

Apart from the documentation of the court case, one of the most valuable aspects of that document, in my opinion, is that it includes Bernd's name change info. The relevance to the court case, as Yak explained, is that Coldwell took umbrage at having been referred to by his birth name, and he complained about it in his letter to the court -- "an incredibly petty and litigious piece of whining," as Yakaru put it in the comment I cited above.

By the way, Yakaru also pointed out to me that some people might consider Karin Paetow-Froese's criticism of Coldwell to be a conflict of interest, since she belongs to a church-based anti-cult group. Such an affiliation wouldn't raise an eyebrow in Germany ("Secularism is an entirely foreign concept here," notes Yakaru), but some US-based skeptics who are no fans of religion might question Ms. Paetow-Froese's credibility. (Reportedly, Coldwell himself is no fan of religion either, but
he has pandered to the Christian market with some of his relaxation and health CDs. Anything to make a buck, ja?)

Yakaru acknowledges the problems some secularists might have with a religious anti-cult critic, and accordingly, he was kind enough to translate another document on the German site: a 2001 statutory declaration from a psychologist, Dr Hansjörg Hemminger (a real "Dr.", in other words), who apparently has no religious agenda. And much of what that document declares see,s to be in sync with the observations from Ms. Paetow-Froese.

Included in this document (and again, this is Yakaru's translation):

On the flip side of irrational attacks on “enemies” stands an equally irrational idealized self image. [Coldwell] possesses the “only holistic self-help system in the world”, which is a rather courageous claim, given the glut of obviously similar self help systems currently flooding the market. Coldwell promises perfect health, cures for cancer and AIDS, and presents himself as the ideal model for these promises. Fake references from large corporations complete the picture of an illusory public image.

One must assume, with Coldwell, a personality with an egoistic, unreal self perception, and unreal perception of others [psych terms], which consequently is highly aggressive towards critics and towards every form of questioning.

Yeah, that sounds about right.

Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Coldwell...
Okay. Enough already with the pink (for a moment, anyway; there will be a little bit more below). Whoever he was or wasn't in the past (and here are some more interesting German sites), today Bernd Klein is now "Dr." Leonard Coldwell, who claims to be a Ph.D. and a naturopathic physician. Yet, according to another pal of mine who is really into research and has access to many more resources than I do, there are no records of him ever earning any degree, no thesis and no connection to the German medical establishments he references in his books. Outside of his own material, there is not one documented case of him curing anyone of anything, even though he claims to have cured 35,000 cancer patients. My friend wrote:

His... degrees... apparently are all from American Universities when he speaks to Germans and from German institutions when he speaks in the US.... In German court he couldn't even prove he had a High School diploma from any German school, yet here in the US he claims to be a German doctor, consultant to medical professionals AND he owned a hospital.

But here's what it says on Lenny's web site:

Dr. Leonard Coldwell is a world-class healer, coach, teacher, speaker, and author.

He cured his own mother from hepatitis C, liver cirrhoses and liver cancer in the terminal state with the prognosis 6 month to live. (Mama Coldwell is still alive today 40 years later and perfectly healthy.)

Dr Coldwell has cured over 35,000 cancer patients, as well as hundreds of people with various other terminal diseases. It is also estimated that he has helped at least 2 million people through his (20) mega bestselling books and hundreds of CD systems.

His IBMS® (Instinct Based Medicine System®) is the most endorsed self-help, self-healing and stress-reduction system ever. He is endorsed by every significant physician and healer and has seen over 65,000 patients and spoke to almost 4 million live seminar attendees.

Dr. Coldwell is estimated to have reached over 57 million people through his tele-seminars, webinars, written publications, and thousands of TV/radio interviews. He is the star guest on all significant shows including Coast to Coast, Dr. Stan Monteeth, and the KT Radio Network. Dr. Coldwell’s speech, in support of our troops, with 5,000 live attendees, is the only one that was transmitted by Clear Channel radio worldwide!

As a consultant…Dr. Coldwell has consulted with nearly every major institution including the Naval Weapon station, firefighters, police officers, military personnel, IBM, Deutsche Bank, Deutscher Herold, world banks, DVAG, all major insurance companies, and Europe’s largest health insurer AOK. Dr. Coldwell is endorsed by the world leaders in medicine and natural medicine. He is endorsed by Dr. Rima Laibow, Dr. Sherri Tenpenny, Dr. Betty Martini, as well as leading consumer advocate
Kevin Trudeau. [Well, obviously that was before the divorce. ~CC] He is also on the board of the American Anti-Cancer Institute and was awarded and honorary Doctor Degree for Humanity by the University in Louisiana in Shreveport, for his contribution for humanity.

Um-kay. "An HONORARY Doctor Degree for Humanity by the University in Louisiana in Shreveport." That definitely qualifies him to be a cancer doc. I can see why all of the significant doctors endorse him and his healing MLM frauduct, and all of the insignificant ones presumably ignore or fear him.

And apparently his momma changed her name to "Coldwell" too, at least if we're to take that copy literally. A Facebook friend of mine accompanied someone to a GIN event last fall and met a smirky guy who claimed to be Lenny's nephew, and my FB friend said the "nephew's" name on his bidness card was Coldwell too. Maybe the whole family changed their names? Or maybe the "nephew" was from a Coldwell branch of the family, and only Lenny and Momma changed their names.

here are some examples of "patients cured against all odds" by "Dr. Coldwell's message and proof of hope."

For those who are into history, here is some Wayback info on Lenny, circa 2001, back when he was just Lenny the Life Coach, "Europe's Leading Self-Help Expert!", and apparently hadn't gotten his doctorates or medical degrees yet:

This bit is interesting:

The noted Professor Doctor Peter Lange, Director of Germany's Charities (the NIH of Germany) says of Leonard Coldwell,
"Not at any time or from anyone have I learned so much than from my colleague Dr. Leonard Coldwell and in such a short amount of time. Leonard Coldwell for me, is the David Copperfield in his field." The foremost Professors, Doctors and also Minister Regine Hillebrand gave Leonard Coldwell a standing ovation for his outstanding performance for the medical profession.

"David Copperfield of the medical field? In Germany? That's an odd testimonial," noted my friend, who added, "A quick search for Peter Lange shows only a Peter Lange who is a director of administration from a college in Berlin."

Now, as you may know, Lenny wouldn't be the first person in his industry to have questionable degrees.
I've written about that a bit on this blog in the past. Iffy degrees are a time-honored tradition in this racket. Good on you, Lenny. It shows you are ambitious.

My German-speaking pal Yakaru also made a comment on
a PDF I'd recently shared: one of Coldwell's promotional efforts for a Trudeau frauduct. Looking at Coldwell's claims about his numerous credentials, as listed on that PDF, Yakaru wrote:

-- there is NO WAY this guy has ever practiced medicine in Germany. He would be locked up if he [made those kinds of claims] here. I notice it says that he was a physician in "Europe", so I suspect it means some former Soviet country with no regulations. The disclaimer at the end saying he's "not responsible for any factual errors" makes me think he probably doesn't even have a fig leaf of any such practice in any country at all.
Yakaru also had some comments about the disclaimer that currently appears at the bottom of every page on Lenny's main Web site. I've mentioned this peculiar -- and peculiarly transparent -- disclaimer on numerous forums over the past few months but it's worth another mention here:
The Dr Leonard Coldwell Foundation e V is responsible for the content of this website, all legal issues have to be addressed to Dr Leonard Coldwell Foundation e V Germany. Due to a hack on our sites we cannot retrieve the origin of some articles used on this website. We apologize for that. Articles are also from our friends, colleagues and fellow freedom fighters like:,,,,,,,, We appreciate the great work and research of Jeff Rense, Kevin Trudeau, Dr Rima E. Laibow, Dr Betty Martini, Dr Thomas Hohn, Jeffrey Smith, Dr Mercola, Mike Adams - The Health Ranger, Alex Jones, and others.
Here is what Yakaru says:
...this Dr Leonard Coldwell e V Germany doesn't even seem to exist. I find no contact details for it anywhere on the Internet. It's only mentioned in that disclaimer as far as I can see. Here's the wiki page explaining what an e. V. is in English -- If it exists it would show up on this search engine:

Eingetragen means in this context "recorded in an official registry book". And that site is the book, so if it's not there, it's not "eingetragen". So that makes it a little difficult for anyone to hold the "Dr Leonard Coldwell e V" responsible for anything. I guess it's not a crime for someone outside of Germany to lie about having an e. V., but inside Germany he'd be in trouble.

Although the people in charge of checking up on e. V.'s in Germany are incredibly slack and probably wouldn't bother even if he were here. The laws governing them are also incredibly slack and there's a lot of legal scamming going on within that system anyway. The system was originally for things like the chess club or sport club, not for "internationally acclaimed businessmen" like Coldwell. The idea that he is using such an amateur club structure as a front is completely laughable. No German businessman would use such a thing for the HQ of his business like Coldwell is. (That group that Karin Paetow-Froese belongs to is an e. V. for example.
Why am I not surprised? This does add yet another layer of questions about why Lenny left Germany, though. It seems that Germany would have been a rich environment for him to practice his "healing"...if only he'd had anything resembling a legitimate degree.

But what really interests me about Lenny is that, as most of you reading this may know, he has been a front man and cheerleader for True-dough and the Global Information Network -- until fairly recently. There's a lot of speculation about the reasons behind the great divorce. Some say Lenny was booted out by KT/GIN. Some say he left voluntarily. Some speculate that he's really still in GIN and is just trying to fake the haters and doubters out so they will leave and the remaining faithful GIN elite can get down to the real business of changing the world in a good way. (Personally I think that latter theory is a little nutty.) Recently on Facebook, when KT's ex-Sales and Marketing Director Peter Wink and Lenny were still apparently trying to do a little damage control, Lenny mentioned that he still had a ten-year contract with GIN.

Here it is -- at least the part of it that Lenny shared publicly (click on pic to enlarge).

But then shortly after that he said GIN backed out of the contract. And after that, it was a free-for-all as Lenny began slamming True-dough every chance he got.

I'm not claiming that the damning stuff Lenny is saying about KT is untrue. Not at all. It sounds credible to me. But it's funny how people open up about the con they were a big part of when the money dries up for them. Yeah, I know I've said that before, but I think it is worth saying again.

Snark tank: what others are saying about Lenny
I realize that I'm not really treading any new ground here, snarking-wise. I'm certainly not the first person to make snide remarks about Lenny. There's this bit from 2010, naming Leonard Coldwell as the "Obama Hoax Chump of the Day" for some anti-Obama nonsense he'd been sprouting on his blog:

Curiously enough, however, Lenny's anti-Obama blog post has since been deleted. Maybe he couldn't take the ridicule. Or maybe the evil New World Order cabal conspirators deleted it.

Then there's this snarky post on the techyum blog from April 2011, in response to an anti-Snopes urban legend that Lenny was apparently spreading via email:

here's a discussion about Lenny on a skeptics' forum, regarding one of Lenny's videos claiming that "Every cancer can be cured in weeks." The discussion was initiated in January of 2010, but in February 2012 this commenter summed up Lenny's biographical challenges quite nicely:

...I've been trying to piece together his professional life story from his multiple web sites (he does not publish a chronological CV anywhere that I can find).  However, using only information published by him, he has at least 2 "Doctor" degrees (DNM and NMD) and at least four PhDs, yet he practiced as a "general practitioner for 16 years" prior to devoting himself to curing stress related diseases such as cancer.  He has cured 35000 patients of cancer, with a cure rate of more than 90%.

Assuming that he began his advanced medical and PhD work at age 20, and that each degree took him 3 years to complete (I have never met anyone who completed a PhD or other doctorate in less than 3 years), the 6 degrees would take him 18 years to complete (minimum age 38).  Let's assume for simplicity that he did not actually work professionally with any of these degrees until completing his multiple educations since that merely extends his age to the absurd.  He then spent "16 years in general practice" before devoting himself to curing cancer, which made him 54 when he started his cancer work.   (Somewhere in the process he also served as consultant to numerous fortune 500 companies on business matters, getting rich quick and other schemes according to his website, but let's assume he did that during evenings and weekends since it otherwise adds even more years to his age).

So at age 54 he starts curing 35000 patients of cancer.  It is reasonable to assume from his websites that virtually every patient he treated was cured, so he did not need to waste much time with patients who died of cancer.  We need to understand that cancer is difficult to treat, so even someone of "Dr." Coldwell's prowess could not cure them in a single visit.  Let's assume that each patient required an average of 10 visits before they could be declared completely cured, and that each visit required 1 hour of the great man's time.   35000 patients x 10 hour visits = 350,000 hours.  Assuming that he worked 60 hour weeks x 50 weeks per year, he could handle 3000 visits, and cure 300 patients per year.  At that rate, it would take him more than 100 years to cure 35,000 patients of cancer.  During this same period, he was also writing numerous scholarly works, giving numerous acclaimed lectures, dealing with "Nobel Prize winners" as his "patients or students".  We can assume he was doing that extra work during evenings and weekends.


Curious that a man of such prodigious accomplishments would be acclaimed on the internet only on his own websites (or those of his partner and "patient", Mr. Kevin Trudeau, himself convicted multiple times of theft and fraud).

Who would have thought that news of such a magnificent healer and humanitarian could be so effectively suppressed in the age of the internet?  I marvel at the "cancer industry" and "tobacco lobby" in all their glorious omnipotence.

It is kind of touching that such a great man would retain the authority of his cute little German accent, like so many of the great scientists (Freud, Einstein, Warburg, Krebs, Meyerhof, Schroedinger, Coldwell).   Strange that such an adorable authority with his lovely German accent has such a non German name.  (Incidentally, I found a reference in the Amazon reviews of one of his books from somebody who actually went to the trouble to look up four of the European institutions at which he had allegedly served with great distinction, and none of them had ever heard of him.  Ungrateful!)

And so on, and so forth. Of course we have cleared up the mystery about Lenny's non-German-sounding name, and as for the hours Lenny must have put in curing all of those cancer patients, well, he has said that cancer can be cured in a matter of hours or even just a minute in some cases. And although the chronologies are vague and confusing, as befits a New-Wage huckster, Lenny has, after all, claimed that he has been curing and healing for most of his life, so no doubt some of the cancer cures and such happened before he got his advanced fake degrees. But most of those other mysteries that the forum participant mentioned are still as mysterious.

The yeah-but part (or my brief attempt at devil's advocacy)
Despite my snarking and everyone else's, I have no doubt that Leonard Coldwell is sincerely interested in health issues and research about alternative treatments for some of humankind's most devastating diseases. I don't think he would have made a career as a health "expert" if he weren't at least interested in the subject. There are so many other ways he could have picked people's pockets.

Moreover, I have a pretty good understanding of why people, particularly those whose lives have been devastated by cancer, would be hungry for alternatives to the horrors of conventional treatments -- chemotherapy, radiation, and surgery (or poisoning, burning, and cutting) -- which are very often as bad as or worse than the disease itself. I get that.

I even understand that the profession of medicine, like most professions, is tainted by politics and egotism, and that to a certain extent the credentials we accept as legitimate in our culture are arbitrary and are a result of a long history of fighting and politicking. That mainstream Western society accepts M.D.s as the chief medical authorities is partly a result of the most bullheaded (some would say bullying) guys winning.

I also acknowledge that in the US, M.D.s are not the only people who are legally allowed to call themselves "Dr." People with a Ph.D., and certain medical practitioners such as osteopaths, chiropractors, and naturopathic doctors, can call themselves "Dr." if their degrees are legitimate.

But I think it is disingenuous and even dangerous to completely vilify evidence-based Western medicine and categorically claim that all medical doctors and other Western-med practitioners and researchers are only out for the bottom line. (Lenny is also one of those ant-vaccination ranters, so there's that to consider.) And just because Western medicine is far from perfect, and doctors make mistakes and are sometimes arrogant -- and just because conventional cancer therapies are horrid -- none of this necessarily validates any of the alt-med peddlers.

More to the point here, I wonder why Lenny seems so cagey about his own credentials, and why he feels the need to exaggerate in such a smarmy, New-Wage marketing way. Shouldn't his work stand on its own, with or without credentials? I know it's kind of a Catch-22, because legally one does have to be careful about the claims one makes regarding health issues, and also because all too often we have a tendency to conflate "credentials" and "credibility." Given these factors, it is understandable, though not excusable, that some people would want to fudge a little. But still, Lenny's claims about himself seem more than a little over-the-top.

My friend whom I quoted above noted:

I have to hand it to [Coldwell's] handlers: they really seem to have buried his past. It seems he kept a low profile for a few years while the web was exploding and came back to life a few years ago. I've noticed this pattern with many of the shills and partners of Kevin Trudeau. They either change their name or bury their past before starting their new lives. In this case there are at least 2 name changes and a lot of burying and SEO. Reading his court case they mention that [Coldwell's] lie-filled webpage vanished prior to the lawsuit.

The bottom line is that there is so much we don't know about Lenny. There was a Wikipedia page at one time, but Wikipedia removed it more than two years ago because "Notability is based on unsourced claims, and on claims from reliable sources." I think that just about sums it up. Maybe someone will eventually enlighten us on the missing pieces of the puzzle. But don't bother asking Lenny these questions, particularly on his Facebook page, and for gosh sakes don't call him "Bernd," or he will block you. That seems to be the way he has been handling criticism so far.

Government is evil (till you need it)
Lenny apparently had problems with the authorities in Germany, but clearly he has no love for some of the authorities in the US either.
On his disclaimer page he blatantly thumbs his nose at the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), the Federal Trade Commission (FTC), the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), and pretty much the entire US government. Under the heading, "FTC, FDA, etc. Disclaimer," Lenny has this, which I did not edit:
To the clowns out there acting as if they where a legitimate government: I do not consent to you having any kind of jurisdiction over me or my work. I do not give you my consent to contact me directly or indirectly. I do not consent to your courts authority or your corporation regulations or company policieswhich have no power over me. I do not consent to your admiralty courts or being contacted or trialed by them. I am a free man living on the land and do not consent to be trialed by admiralty or marital law. I insist on the application of common law and only accept trial by jury in a common law procedure and by the court of record. So you get it? I do not consent to anything that you the corporation or the ones acting for the corporation imposing to by our rulers or dictators or for that matter a lawful government....Whatever I do or say now or in the future, does not mean I give you jurisdiction over me or my matters. I will never give you jurisdiction or consent to anything. You do not have any consent to anything regarding me, I will never give you and further, you do you have any jurisdiction or authority over me or my matters.  No FBI, FTC or FDA etc has any jurisdiction over me as a free citizen of the Republic. The constitution is the supreme law of the land and every law, rule, act etc that is unconstitutional, has no enforceable lawful value. The only jurisdiction are my unalienable rights and the constitution of we the people and the bill of rights. Get it guys? I do not consent to anything regarding you! ...

But ever since the GIN sh-t hit the fan, Lenny has been trumpeting about how KT is going to get his come-uppance from the FTC and maybe even the FBI. Lenny has been suggesting that people who have been harmed by GIN and Kevin Trudeau might want to contact some of these government agencies. So I guess he is saying that they have jurisdiction over True-dough and GIN but not over Lenny. Maybe those agencies really do quake in their shoes before the presence of such a powerful man who has cured so many thousands of people.

Dissenters and dueling agendas
Defenders of True-dough and GIN are trying to "out" Lenny for all sorts of things now. That's because he has been very open on Facebook and on his blog about his disdain for KT and GIN. He has figured out that the Brotherhood/seekrit-society tale KT has used to sell GIN is crap.
He has figured out that Jerry and Esther Hicks, whose material was part of the GIN reading list, made up the whole Abrascam thing, and that the Hicks are money-grubbing hypocrites. Not surprisingly, he has used his outing of the Hicks to promote his own stuff. On Facebook he wrote:

If the law of attraction really works without doing nothing else No plan, no goal no action why did the Law of Attraction guy die of cancer ( there is and there never was an Abraham in that content )
Jerry Hicks' death from cancer, according to family members, came after he chose conventional medicine that rejects the "teachings of Abraham." Esther and Jerry Hicks readily acknowledge his receiving "heavy chemotherapy," but no one at the Abraham Hicks marketing company openly admit that the illness that might mean the death of Abraham Hicks.
So they are all just talkers and when it come down to it the truth comes out. Positive thinking without positive action as my IBMS system is teaching it is BS Love Dr C

Et cetera, et cetera. And as I've noted, he's really mouthing off about all of it now, basically saying all of the stuff that we hater bloggers have been writing for years. (See here and here for two examples of my addressing the Hicks/cancer hypocrisy, for instance. Those are from just last year, but I've been writing about the Abrascam for years.) My point is that if Lenny is such a smart man, how come he is just now figuring out that Jerry and Esther simply made up the whole Abraham thing? And, more important to the pending lawsuits at hand (more on that below), why is he just now figuring out that there never was a seekrit brotherhood GIN council? I don't even have any fake letters after my name -- heck, I never even went to college -- and I figured all of that out years ago.

But I'll say this for Lenny: At least he is being upfront about throwing one of his former meal tickets (or promised meal tickets) under the bus. Over the years I have observed that most of the New-Wage/selfish-help/McSpirituality scoundrels stab each other in the back behind the scenes. Many of them really don't like each other very much, and no wonder; it's a fiercely competitive industry. But at least in public they keep up appearances and masturbate each other like crazy. But Lenny, at enormous risk to his standing in Scamworld, is showing his true fake colors. "You'll never work in this town again, Lenny!" But hey, he's a rebel, and maybe he doesn't care.

At any rate, he now claims to be spearheading a class-action lawsuit against True-dough, and he has apparently been data-mining disgruntled GIN members in the guise of gathering GIN horror stories and complaints for the purpose of the suit. But it seems to me -- though I don't claim to understand these things or to have any inside knowledge of the structure of GIN -- that because so many people claim to have joined GIN specifically because of Lenny, and because he apparently put forth a lot of effort to get folks to sign up over the years...well, maybe he should be one of the targets of the class-action suit along with Kevin Trudeau.

One of the commenters to my blog has apparently made that very suggestion to Lenny, and for his efforts got blocked from Lenny's Facebook page.

Not surprisingly, some GIN defenders are doing everything they can to discredit Lenny, mostly by dishing about his current personal life. But I don't care about any of that stuff. *

In any case it seems to me that most of Lenny's detractors -- at least the ones I've seen on Facebook -- are motivated by a desire to hang on to their increasingly tenuous territory in KT's corner of Scamworld. One guy on Facebook even wrote (and here is that nutcake theory I alluded to earlier):

It is as simple as this. The GIN council has created and is carrying out a master plan that will effectually ensure the weeding out of vibrationally/energetically incompetent GIN members and spies. It was also to ensure that anyone who wants to join GIN for selfish or parasitical reasons would be demotivated from even joining when they would be exposed to the lies being masterfully perpetrated. This was the plan of The Founding Council all along and stupid people will take the bait. Remember, Artists use lies to tell the truth while corrupt government uses them to cover up the truth. None of the GIN council are individuals who seek to spread true deception. These are men of the highest integrity and character.

Am I saying that it may certainly be the case that Dr Coldwell is actually spreading the discord on his facebook and websites at the behest of the GIN council to weed out undesirables? Quite certainly I am granting you the ability to see how that would be the case...

GIN will not fail or fall apart as the false "Dr C" has so eloquently put it. It seems GIN trolls and hackers are weeding out idiots from GIN. So if you believe the DR C on facebook then hang yourself for us in regard to GIN so we dont have to wait for it...

Uh-huh. That's what KT wants you to think. He's prolly guffawing into his E-Pendant reading such comments, knowing he still has a few gullible followers. By the way, the guy who wrote the screed above also claims KT has been a member of that seekrit society The Brotherhood since the early 1950s. KT was born in 1963, so that would be quite an accomplishment. Maybe The Brotherhood, recognizing KT's great prowess, made his membership retroactive.

But let's get back to Lenny -- and you.

Think about what YOU want
Lenny Coldwell is looking ahead to life after GIN for sure. He has invited all of the newly escaped GIN members to
a freeeeeee Healing Life Super Summit in Charleston, South Carolina on June 9. Afterward he'll have a blowout session on Life After GIN. But hurry! There are only a few seats left! (See Robert Cialdini on fake scarcity.)

I am thinking that maybe you should think about whether you really want to take a "free" seminar from this man. Do you really want and expect him to guide you to and through "Life After GIN?" Do you really think he will help you create a new golden era of anything? I don't care if
he does claim to know the REAL truth about 2012 (which of course he'll share with you in South Carolina on June 9); how "free" do you think this "free" seminar will really turn out to be?

And do you really think that he will help you get back the money Kevin Trudeau owes you? I mean, really?

Okay, maybe you just like Lenny as a person, or you like his persona. Peter Wink told me Lenny is really a very nice guy who is one of the most caring people in the self-help industry. So maybe you just want to go hang around Lenny and party. Fine, but leave your wallet in your hotel room.

I know that some of you also enjoy Lenny's "health" information. Maybe he shared a tip that helped you with a serious or perplexing condition, such as a swollen middle finger or some syndrome or fatal disease that nothing and no one had ever been able to help you with before. (That
food-grade hydrogen peroxide can work miracles, I'm told. Here's more about it.) Maybe you think that results, real or imagined, are more important than credentials (real or imagined). But isn't it possible that you can just read Lenny's books or his blog or web sites to get tips?

Or perhaps you enjoy Lenny's wingnutty New-World-Order paranoia porn and anti-Obama and anti-Snopes rants. Fine, but I am thinking that you can get the same thing by listening to Alex Jones or Sean Hannity or Rush.

Maybe you simply enjoy the fellowship and camaraderie of fellow disgruntled GIN members. All well and good, but y'all have shown that you are perfectly capable of organizing on your own, though it appears that a few people have infiltrated the private groups and are hitting them up with yet more "ground-floor" ops and MLM sales talk. I don't think that is very cool. But I do think that making and maintaining true friendships is extremely cool.

All I am really saying is that maybe you ought to seriously think about all of this stuff.

Then again, if you don't follow Lenny or any of the other recently separated GIN speakers such as
Peter Ragnar or Ron Ball or one of those other guys who are also rumored to be defecting or thinking of it, what will you do after GIN? I'm reminded of the final scene in one of my favorite movies, Demolition Man, when the bewildered, newly liberated citizens are wondering what's next. The tyrannical leader has been eliminated and the perfect, but perfectly oppressive, society he built is coming apart at the seams now that the horrendous cryo-prison -- which was one of the tools that kept everyone in line -- has been destroyed.

Chief George Earle: [confused; takes off his glasses] What will we do? How will we live?
Edgar Friendly: I tell you what we're gonna do. We're all gonna go out drinking, get shit-faced, and paint the town, literally. I mean graffiti, slogans. It'll be a blast.
John Spartan: Whoa, Whoa. I'll tell you what gonna do:
John Spartan: [to Chief Earle] Why don't you get a little dirty?
John Spartan: [to Edgar] You... a lot clean.
John Spartan: And somewhere in the middle... I don't know. You'll figure it out.

And you will. I'll be here for moral support if needed, and I won't even try to sell you on an MLM or the Only Answer to whatever is ailing you. Salty Droid is around too, if you don't mind some salty language and some harder truths than I have ever delivered on this Whirled.**

I think there really is a whole new wonderful life after GIN, but it may not be the life that Lenny is trying to sell you. You have choices to make, and choices can either be liberating or they can suck you back into the same old vortex. Don't cut yourself off from self-help stuff completely if you think some of it may be truly useful. But don't ever be afraid to read books and listen to information that is critical of the self-help industry and its leaders. Whatever you do, though, hang on to your wallet, because there are toilets everywhere that are hungry for your money.

PS ~ My assessment about self-help and motivational gurus includes but is not limited to Kevin Trudeau, Leonard Coldwell, Abraham-Hicks (aka Abrascam-Hicks; as I insinuated above, you'll find plenty about "them" on this blog), Peter Ragnar (whom I haven't covered yet, but wait for it; I think it will be worth the wait),*** and on and on. Oh, and that Rich Dad Poor Dad guy?
Just another fibber. That's not new news at all, but if Robert Kiyosaki is on your GIN reading list, keep it in mind.

And to tell the truth, I wasn't thinking only of KT and GIN when I wrote
this little song-without-a-tune, even if a lot of it could apply. It's just a commentary on the M.O. and business models of so many in this industry.

* Re Lenny's personal life: I have somewhat modified my opinion that his personal life is totally irrelevant. More soon. ~CC, July 2012

** Re Salty Droid (and Lenny's personal life): If you think I've been hard on Bernd, read THIS and then read THIS. Obviously I did not know about the more serious allegations at the time I first published this blog post in May 2012. ~CC, September 2012

*** Re Ragnar: Sorry to disappoint but he is just going to have to wait in line. Other subjects are ever so much worse.

More True-dough on this Whirled:

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Tom Banjo said...

I took your offered medical advice and took the salt with the water, I added Dr. C's advice and also added sand before I drank it .... according to Dr C and his many supporters, the sand and salt scrape holes in my arteries but my cholesterol immediately patches the holes. My lawyer says that if I wasn't such an imbecile I might have a case.

Tom Banjo said...

Have you seen Dr C's advice about drinking a glass of water with salt and sand in it? Apparently the sand will scrape holes in your arteries and your cholesterol then patches those holes. I guess he never learned (in Doctor School) about salt dissolving in water or anything about the digestive system he seems to believe that drinking sand somehow gets the sand right into your arteries. Are you telling me that people listened to this after paying to listen to it and didn't demand a live demonstration?

I think I understand why nobody ever asked him to produce a peer reviewed paper or even a high school diploma before taking his medical advice. Excuse me while I drink some hydrogen peroxide (food grade version of the toxic liquid)

I just need to concentrate to make sure that charged oxygen molecule only attaches itself to the bad stuff in my body and not something I might need in the future. I'd hate for my stomach to become flammable due to lack of concentration.

Cosmic Connie said...

Oh, Tom, you DARE to mock the works of this great man? You must be a jealous loser sorehead, or a shill for Big Pharma and the Evil Medical Establishment.

But seriously now. Your comments remind me that I didn't even begin to address any of Dr. C.'s actual "medical" claims, and there are two reasons for that: (1) I'm not qualified to do that in great detail; and (2) The blog post was already more than long enough, and I did not want my main messages to get lost.

But I imagine that some of the medical bloggers I'm fond of, such as Orac, the (by all appearances ethical, caring, and compassionate) cancer surgeon who runs the Respectful Insolence blog, would just love to take on Dr. C.

Tom Banjo said...

Well Ms. Cosmic Smartypants ...I'll have you know that I won't take advice from anyone who is not an internet certified cancerologist with an HONORARY Doctor Degree for Humanity from a phony baloney college.

Maybe you should get your ego in check and read about the AMERICAN ANTI-CANCER INSTITUTE's fierce battle against America's Pro Cancer forces. You can bet that Bernd properly tanned and ready for some serious work. I believe that since he already cured cancer his current crusade is finding a cure for success. I for one believe he found it.

Cosmic Connie said...

For your reading pleasure, everyone:
In case you hadn't seen this yet, here is a brief discussion about Lenny C at James Randi's forum:

Someone asked about Dr. C. and one commenter responded:

He's an associate of fraudster, felon and quack Kevin Trudeau and posted this in one of Trudeau's "newsletters":

As a friend and physician of Kevin Trudeau in Europe, Kevin has asked me to write for you some information about my experience with and historical use of my cancer protocol. If you read further you agree and accept the following and attached disclaimers and information! You are also informed that I do not work with patients in the US and all information I simple for educational, research or entertainment purposes only.

Disclaimer: Dr Leonard Coldwell is retired and does not work in the USA with patients. If you have any serious health concerns please consult a licensed health care practitioner. The following is not health advice or substitute for any doctors visit, treatment or diagnosis it is only a general information of what advice Dr Coldwell gave his patients in similar cases. Since every individual case is different you need to see an expert for individual advice, diagnosis and treatment. Do not apply any of this information before you consulted a licensed health care practitioner. The following is only Dr Coldwell's personal opinion or a summary of the historical use of his system directed to his patients while he was still working with patients in Europe. All health statements made are based on freedom of religion and for and form the Church Of Inner Healing. Or it is advice from licensed MD's that are students of Dr Coldwell like Dr Hohn MD NMD or Dr Crone MD ND HD. The following information is for educational and research purposes only. All emails are written under the NAFEORA 199. Also written under constitutional rights.

FTC and FDA warning: guys I do not trade or sell anything or make any direct profit from any of my suggestions. Not even my books. So don’t even bather to harass me because it will lead to legal action against you personally not against the agencies. You can get free individual advice from the from Dr. Hohn MD NMD just write to
==end Dr. C. quotation==

Continuation of comment by James Randi forum participant:
Hmm. A mix of quackery, legal threats, religious "ordination" [1] and associated with Trudeau: avoid.

A little research shows he's also a birther, a follower of Lyndon LaRouche and claims that megadoses of Vitamin D and/or mistletoe [2] will eradicate cancer. Oh and he claims, or allows others like Thomas Hohn of the "Good Life Foundation" to claim on his behalf, that he cured Ronald Regan's colon cancer; and he doesn't like Snopes.

I'm also reasonably sure that he doesn't have a real doctorate or real medical qualifications; he refers to himself as:

"Board Certified NMD DNM PHD LCHC CNHP"

1 He's an "ordained" "minister" of the "Universal Ministries", i.e. a mail order outfit.
2 Or maple syrup. No I'm not making this up.


I'd forgotten to mention that Lenny has claimed he cured Ronnie Reagan's colon cancer. What a guy!

And he displays his characteristic defiance to the FDA, etc. He also says he doesn't profit directly from his advice, not even from his books.

Continued next comment...

Cosmic Connie said...

Continued from previous comment...

OMT: In the blurb quoted above, Lenny claims to be operating under the umbrella of a "church" of his own device, The Church of Inner Healing. I think his upcoming Medicine Show in Charlatan, S.C. on June 9 is also under the auspices of that esteemed religious institution. Apparently he reasons that if dodgy advice is given a religious rather than a medical framework it protects him from the nasty gummit agencies. And he may even have things set up so that he doesn't have to pay taxes, since churches are tax exempt in the good old U S of A.

Cosmic Connie said...

Tom (June 01, 2012 2:58:00 PM), I may not be an Interwebz certified cancerologist, but I am a snarkologist, and certifiable for sure. That OUGHT to count for something.

Cosmic Connie said...

A friend of mine offered this tip for anyone who wants to do some further research on Bernd:

"Karin Paetow-Froese, Working Group sects eV Herford...

"Karin is the one who sued Bernd for being a Scientologist.

"She and her husband Ruger it seems have dedicated their careers to stopping totalitarian religious sects in Germany. She goes after cults, Satanists, Scientologists and of course Lenny the wacky Life Coach.

"If you have a friend who speaks German it seems she should be their first contact... She seems to take on some heavy issues over there. Most of which involve deaths of cult members. A 14 year old Satanist, Lisa MacPherson from Scientology etc..."


Thanks, pal!

One of CC's peeps said...

I got several big LOLs reading "Dr." C's bio...

Here are a few...
1. There is a University called Louisiana State University, which is in Shreveport.

Doc claims to have honorary degree from University in Louisiana in Shreveport - I guess that is the lesser known sister school in the basement of the local 7-11.

2. Some of the people and institutions who have supposedly endorsed Lenny:

"ROBERT WRIGHT, DIRECTOR, AMERICAN ANTI-CANCER INSTITUTE, a 3-year-old organization that educates people worldwide regarding the real truth about cancer. Mr. Wright received his B.S. Degree in Education at George Fox University in Newberg, Oregon. He later became a Vice President of Sales for the Pacific Aerospace & Electronics Company in Wenatchee, Washington and worked personally on the development of the International Space Station.

"Mr. Wright's University Teaching Degree and multiple 'study and hands-on degrees' in Cancerology, Nutrition, Disease and Wellness are well known and respected in the anti-cancer community."

(cancerology ... Sweet Merciful Crap)

Dr. Rima Laibow (who is a Psychiatrist, not a cancerologist)

(I will continue this in the next comment – Blogger is telling me that my comment is too long.)

South Carolina Bound said...

"HONORARY Doctor Degree for Humanity" - These words have only been published as written inside the quotes by 2 people in the history of written words.

#1 - Lenny C

#2 - Connie S when repeating info provided by Dr C.

Let's hope Lenny is practicing his Portuguese for when he has to flee to Brazil.

Tom Banjo said...

These GIN people are relentless in their belief. The base of this pyramid is made up of people DESPERATE to give their money to scammers. After the leader, his meal tickets and most of the GIN scammers are exposed (by each other fyi) Top level members and Scientologists are talking to the fed to help bring down GIN or take some of the pressure off Scientology. These lemmings admit they swore by the wrong scammers and are ready to jump into a new scamm today.

GIN members are jumping in to support Peter Ragnar (Peter Lundell? Peter Bellistreri?) as their new leader. How is it that they don't remember him as part of the GIN leadership who just robbed them? Do you think he was surprised by the scam? Then we have Ron Ball, another theif. Amway? Does anyone remember that Amway was a scam? Ron Ball got rick with AMWAY but he got rick robbing idiots like you GIN members. Do you think he changed his ways and joined GIN for any reason other than the opportunity to rip off idiots? Stop being idiots, I am losing patience with everyone who defends anything these people say or do. Ron Ball is FUCKING YOU OVER for a few bucks. He's been FUCKING PEOPLE OVER for years with scams like AMWAY and GIN. PETER RAGNAR is FUCKING YOU OVER with his bullshit Taoism magnets and fake karate. He's been paying for ads in Karate magazines for years and is a KNOWN SCAMMER in martial arts circles. You just got robbed by him and his associates, do you think he isn't sitting around thinking of a new way to FUCK YOU out of more money now that GIN is dead? I wish you all well .... HUGZ and fuck you if you fall for another scam from any of these new age slimebags.

Cosmic Connie said...

Don't sugarcoat it, Tom. :-)

While I don't agree that the ex-GIN members are idiots, I do pretty much agree with your assessment of those to whom they are looking as new role models/leaders.

I have some comments about Ron Ball, which I'll share a little later, but I am on my way out the door for a while on this fine Saturday.


Cosmic Connie said...

'Kay, I'm back. I plan to do a piece on Peter Ragnar soon, but for anyone who wants to get a head start on research, an alternative name might be Balistreri. That's actually the last name of a guy who is listed as his partner, Anthony S. (Tony) Balistreri. Just wanted to clarify that.

By the way, I guess it isn't official knowledge that Peter Ragnar has left GIN. Well, at least Peter R. himself has been cagey about it, so oh gosh, I may be telling tales out of school by even mentioning his pending divorce from GIN on this blog.

In any case, I just saw this comment on a Facebook discussion group:

"I just talked with one of Peter Ragnar's downline. He said Peter has stopped contact with him. I didn't know Peter had a downline in GIN. That must be why he hasn't completely came out and said he has left GIN yet. He is trying to find the best way to work around his downline probably..."

And THIS is the guy they're calling ethical? Maybe they'll change their mind as they find out more.

I'll gab about Ron Ball in the next comment. Looks like it's just you and me for now, Tom, but I hope others are reading this too.

Cosmic Connie said...

Now here's the thing the thing bout Ron Ball. I was going to work this into a blog post and I still might, but since Tom Banjo brought Ron Ball's name up (and since I mentioned him briefly in my post), I'll go into it now.

I find Ron Ball a turnoff for the reasons Tom mentioned: basically he appears to be an old-style hustledork who has been at it for years and years and years. His involvement in Scamway should be a dead giveaway for those who are looking for clues. He’s been in the motivational biz for more than 25 years and he should have been able to see GIN was a scam from the get-go. I believe that no matter how good a Christian he claims to be, he is backing out now not because it's What Jesus Would Do, but because it's what he needs to do to save his own arse, legally and financially.

Maybe I shouldn't try to second-guess people's motives, but there you are. If Ron or one of his pals wants to share their view here, they are welcome to do so.

Anyway, a couple of months ago I was working on yet another True-dough/GIN blog post and came across a blog by a very ambitious KT/GIN sycophant named David Krueger, owner of "The David Krueger Master Mind Blog." I mentioned him briefly in my Viva Lost Wages post on April 13.

Oh, look, there's a pic of David and such luminaries as Peter Ragnar and The Amazing Kreskin on his bio page:

No word about what David is up to now that the GIN sh-t has hit the fan. But I digress.

At one time David had an "About GIN" page in which he had embedded three GIN vids. That page has been 404’d, for some reason. But one of the videos, entitled "Excerpts From GIN Training Events," really interested me. I wish I’d saved the link, because I might have been able to find it on YouTube. Can’t find it now. But I took notes and here’s what I remember.

Due to Blogger’s infuriating character limitation, I will have to continue this below.

Cosmic Connie said...

The GIN training vid I mentioned above features a few hustledorks hopping around on stage preaching The Word, frantically trying to reassure the audience that GIN is a Very Good Thing and that all of the naysayers and doubters, including those in their own families, are just plain wrong. The first h-dork up is our pal Ron Ball, who shares a sad childhood tale of being ridiculed by a teacher in front of a whole classroom full of his fellow students.

As he tells it, he was the new kid at his school, fresh from his daddy's farm in West Virginia or some such place, and he spoke with a heavy farmboy-from-the-sticks accent. He says his teacher urged him to stand up in front of the class and tell them a little about himself. So he did. She was falling all over herself laughing as he spoke, and when he was done, she told the class that she had let him go on and on because she wanted the kiddos to hear how a dumb hick sounds. (Cue shocked gasps and sympathetic murmurs from GIN audience.)

Ball added that he could have just skulked away in defeat after that, but he used the mighty power of "brain potentiation" to decide that he would show everyone what he was really made of... and so he proceeded to gun down the entire class. Okay, not really, and I'm sorry; I shouldn't have joked about something like that. No, what little Ron really did, says big Ron, was become a star pupil, top athlete, and general pillar of his school community, all by way of showing everyone just what a dumb hick could accomplish.

Now, if this long-ago scenario really unfolded in the way he described -- and I have to say that with this lot, every story should be taken with at least a few grains of salt -- then shame, shame, shame on that teacher. That was a truly abusive thing for her to do. But shame on Ron Ball too for correlating this tale of genuine emotional abuse of a child with his advice to GIN members whose families or friends express doubts or even ridicule about GIN. A teacher publicly humiliating a young kid is not at all in the same league as a spouse, parent, or friend who's concerned about someone they love pouring thousands of dollars down the drain in hopes of getting effortlessly rich.

When I watched the vid I didn’t have any idea of the GIN storm that was about to erupt. But I did sense desperation – a frantic attempt to convince doubting GIN members that they needed to hang in there just a little bit longer. In retrospect, it appears to me that Ron Ball DID know something was amiss and was doing his part to save the sinking ship.

As I said, I don’t have a link to that vid now. But here’s one that gives a glimpse of Ron Ball putting his nose up KT’s lying aperture. And I have to say that is really pretty nauseating.

Cosmic Connie said...

Getting back to the main topic of this post, Leonard Coldwell...
This is the continuation of a comment from "One of CC's peeps," who tried several times to post it last night, but Blogger was apparently being a little bitch. The first part of the comment is above (Friday, June 01, 2012 9:40:00 PM).

Here's the rest of the comment:

Here is more information about the people who have supposedly endorsed Lenny Coldwell:

Dr Tenpenny (major item on her CV, National Speakers Network)

Dear Mr. Gress:
My piece stated that there are indeed over 150 anti-vaccine conspiracy sites; your restating it doesn't support any points you make. It shows only that there are a lot of stupid and malevolent people in the world who know how to type. Tell me something I don't know. I looked up your "Shocking Discovery" mention. It came from no news story and describes events that never occurred. It originated on the Mercola website, which I have repeatedly pointed out is obsessed with conspiracies. Then you have Mercola commenting on his fabrication. I'm overwhelmed, especially since he's flatly wrong. As I correctly stated, thimerosal is no longer in childhood vaccines. The primary vaccine that still uses it is the flu shot.

In my piece, I showed Kennedy's dishonesty over his intentionally confusing two entirely different forms of mercury, ethyl and methyl. He, and by repeating them you, do exactly the same thing, combining them both as simply "mercury." If Kennedy is a liar, what does that make you?

Thimerosal was removed from childhood vaccines on the advice of the American Academy of Pediatrics, which made it clear that while the vaccines were safe the value of the preservative was outweighed by the fear induced by conspiracy mongers like you. No vaccine can be effective if not used.

Your "world-renowned vaccine expert Dr. Sherri Tenpenny" has never published a single article in a peer-reviewed journal. In fact, other than publications she directly sells, her sole presence is on, once again, the Internet. Only conspiracy-theorists like Mercola and you think anything she says is worth so much as Onepenny.

Michael Fumento

Betty Martini:
So where does Betty Martini fit into all of this? Well, it is a point of contention as to whether the ‘Nancy Markle’ who supposedly wrote the article featured in the email even exists. It’s widely accepted that the article was actually a talk presented by one Betty Martini at a conference. Whether Nancy Markle was someone in the audience who saw fit to transcribe the talk and present the work as her own, or whether she was a pseudonym adopted by Martini, is unknown. What is not contested is that the sentiment and statements made are Martini’s.

So who is this woman who has seen fit to warn the world of the dangers of aspartame? A medical doctor perhaps? Betty claims in her bio that she worked in the medical field for 22 years, but also says that she had 3 children instead of a doctor’s degree (but doesn’t say what, if any, qualification she does have). It seems she was diagnosed with breast cancer and was cured by a miracle herb. This may have been the start of Betty’s road from responsible medical worker to outright kook, and the FDA’s banning of the supposed cure certainly turned her against them permanently. Then in 1993 Betty was investigating the cause of a friend’s severe neurological problems, and diagnosed him with aspartame disease (remember, Betty is not a doctor). She promptly founded an organization known as Mission Possible International, committed to removing the aspartame from our food. It doesn’t seem like they’ve had much success so far.

CC, anyone who reads your blog can do this exact research in 1 hour. Add to that the German court's decision that Lenny was lying when he claimed to have worked with insurance companies, hospitals etc….As far as I'm concerned, Dr. C. has a lot of 'splainin' to do.

Personally I don't like greasy little nancy boys said...

You say Peter Wink told you that Leonard Coldwell is a very nice guy and one of the most caring people in the self-help industry. But according to one of your Peter Wink articles a couple of years ago Peter also said about Trudeau, "Kevin is one of the warmest, sweetest, sincerest people you’ll ever know." Maybe he is not the greatest judge of character?

Cosmic Connie said...

Everyone: It occurred to me that some people might be offended by the language in some of these comments. I try to keep expletives to a minimum, but since Blogger makes it a hassle to edit comments I let some of the F-bombs go through if the comment has other merits. And in these cases, I think they definitely do. The comments may contain some harsh truths for some, but they are worth reading, I think.

Jim Bob said...

That "nancyboys" commenter above reminded me that some ppl at the GIN events have been offended by what seems to be part of Lenny Coldwell's sales pitch: womanizing and how proud he is of his female conquests, to the point where he points women out in the audience and tells everyone "I hit that last night." i mean, WTF? It adds just another level of ridiculousness to his stories. Some people who have watched him in action think he is just covering up for latent or maybe not so latent homosexuality, but if that is the case it would destroy a lot of his sales pitch's angles. Drinking gin, banging hotties, makin' cheddar, driving fast cars and hanging with the boys ..... all silly nonsense when you realize he may just be a fruity cupcake. NotI am not bashing gays in general, just little fake-tan twerps.

I got banned from Dr C's facebook page said...

I challenged "dr." C on Facebook and got banned. Just for asking about some of his credentials. For a guy who constantly gets death threats and people trying to shoot him as he claims, he seems to have awful thin skin.

Mariah said...

I really hate it when people fake credentials! I guess I'm just worn out on fakers in general. Thanks for another great post, Cosmic Connie.

Tom Banjo said...

Do a search for Columbia State University. The esteemed storefront of higher learning that bestowed a Phd on "Dr" Coldwell after his gruelling 28 days of study. In his German court case he stated that he earned his degree from this school. Dr Dente is still laughing.

Cosmic Connie said...

Hey, Mariah, thanks! I know what you mean about fakers. (And I'm still shaking my head over the irony of Lenny calling Abe-Hicks fakes when... well... pot and kettle. You know.)

In any case, speaking of credentials, I think it is important to mention again, as I noted above, that Lenny seems to be using his "church" -- The Church of Inner Healing -- as protection from the slings and arrows of Uncle Sam's humorless regulatory bodies.

My sense is that he reasons that a person or business can get away with a lot in the US if they're a legally chartered "church" and they peddle their frauducts and flopportunities under the umbrella of religion. (That's how the University of Metaphysics/University of Sedona got off of the Texas accreditation board's "illegal" list.)

Here's a link with more info about Lenny's churchly affiliation:

But my understanding is that if someone is... say... convicted of fraud, those protections go away. Not that Lenny HAS been convicted of or even charged with fraud at this point. I'm just sayin'.

I'll continue this in the next comment. Got more to say about those questionable degrees.

Cosmic Connie said...

As for those faux degrees, a friend of mine reminded me that Coldwell "had the balls to claim advanced degrees in German court."
My friend quoted from the English translation of the German web site I linked to in my post:

"He [Coldwell] possesses the Ph. D. in Psychology, awarded by the Columbia State University in the United States. He possessed also a professor at the Virginia Health University of Delaware in the U.S. and in Germany lead seminars and give lectures."

But, my friend added, "Columbia State U is not mentioned to his American audience."
And no wonder. Seems that Columbia State U is (was) a diploma mill, completely fake.

Sez the Wiki article :

"Although its name implied that Columbia State was a state-supported educational institution, it was not associated with a state government. Rather, it was a private operation owned by Ronald Pellar, a professional hypnotist also known as Ronald Dante who performed on stage under the name Dr. Dante."

My friend advised me to look up Columbia State U's Dr Dante. He pointed me to this 2006 article:

This bit from the article is priceless:

“'They all realized what they were getting,' [Dante] said. 'I mean, come on, who's kidding who? They were getting a Ph.D. in a month.'”

"So," my friend concluded, "we have to retract everything we said about Lenny not having any qualifications ... he did his 28 days and got his Phd."

But it seems that Lenny stopped using his Columbia State U reference in the US where the jig was up, even though he swore to it in Germany.

This is not legal advice said...

Well, anyone who wants to sue Lenny Coldwell should be advised of the disclaimer at the bottom of his web site:

"The Dr Leonard Coldwell Foundation e V is responsible for the content of this website, all legal issues have to be addressed to Dr Leonard Coldwell Foundation e V Germany. Due to a hack on our sites we cannot retrieve the origin of some articles used on this website. We apologize for that. Articles are also from our friends, colleagues and fellow freedom fighters like:,,,,,,,, We appreciate the great work and research of Jeff Rense, Kevin Trudeau, Dr Rima E. Laibow, Dr Betty Martini, Dr Thomas Hohn, Jeffrey Smith, Dr Mercola, Mike Adams - The Health Ranger, Alex Jones, and others."

I guess that he will have to take Trudeau off of that list sooner or later.

All things considered, Lenny should probably have set his businesses up in Nevis.

Cosmic Connie said...

More grist for the mill:

It hit me that in his current bio, Lenny says he cured his momma of hepatitis C and other liver ailments (presumably when he was a teen) and that forty years later she is still healthy. But Hep C hadn't been identified 40 years ago.

Hepatitis was known, of course. And many ex-hippies and other baby boomers who experimented with drug use and free love back in the day now have been confirmed as having Hep. C. Today a D and E have also been identified. Before all is said and done, hepatitis may make it through the entire alphabet.

But back when Lenny would have been "curing" his mom (who of course was not a baby boomer and presumably not a hippie or promiscuous drug user), no one had heard of Hep C.

Here's Wiki again
"In 1988, the virus was confirmed by Alter by verifying its presence in a panel of NANBH specimens. In April of 1989, the discovery of the virus, re-named hepatitis C virus (HCV), was published in two articles in the journal '''Science'''.

I may be nitpicking, especially since Lenny's basic claim of "curing" his mom of all of those liver ailments is suspicious in itself. Maybe he's doing the retroactive diagnosis thing -- didn't know it was Hep C back then but knows it now. Still, it's a highly questionable claim at best.

But my guess is that he's banking on the fact that few believers will question or bother to do research.

A friend with whom I was discussing this wrote, "Lenny cured his mom of something that didn't even exist yet. No wonder he was so successful. They should give him another 28 day Phd just for that."

just my opinion said...

another page with one of "dr" c's lame disclaimers is at

it has some of the same content that was quoted by that participant in the james randi forum you mentioned earlier. stuff like this which i think needs to be mentioned again:

"The following is only Dr Coldwell’s personal opinion or a summary of the historical use of his system directed to his patients while he was still working with patients in Europe. All health statements made are based on freedom of religion and for and form the Church Of Inner Healing."

the page also has the contact information in germany of the famous dr hohn and dr crone, the m.d.s who "dr" c so often cites as authorities.

anyways i think you're right about "dr" c using his so-called church to protect himself. that and the "leonard coldwell foundation in germany" (mentioned above by this is not legal advice.) all of it puts layers of protection around that slimy little operator so if anyone wants to take legal action against "dr" c himself or even just check up on his resources, well good luck with that.

its really interesting to me, and i know you've said this in your post, that some peeps are waking up to the fact that kevin trudeau has protected himself by having global info network in nevis and they are pissed off about it and rightly so. but they seem totaly blind to the possibilty that "dr" c is doing the same kind of stuff. he is just as slithery as kt in my opinion. and he is taking advantage of the peopl who have been hurt by kt to sell his own junk.

Silent D said...

@Tom Banjo
Could you please back up your claims that Peter Ragnar is a scammer?

Anonymous said...

'4 million live seminar attendees'

(Ok, it says 'nearly' but a little round-up to make the point is still in order, methinks)

Take them in batches of 10,000 - which would probably attract some media attention, given that the Forum attracts attention in batches of a couple of hundred - and that's 400 such seminars.

Dates? Venues? Ticket prices?

All the mundane information is always missing: only the sensational claims remain.

I went to see Pink Floyd in Auckland, New Zealand back in the 90's. While moving here I found the old ticket, with the date, venue, and price written on it.

Someone who had organised and presented at 400 (minimum, smaller venues means more venues) seminars involving 10,000 live attendees would have records of the logistics, the preparation, the security, the fire safety, the toilet cleaners, the refreshments, etc etc etc etc ...

I do not believe one single word of it.

Cosmic Connie said...

Silent D (June 22), I will leave it to Tom Banjo to respond in more detail if he wishes, but from what I've seen, Peter Ragnar is, at the very least, a New-Wage dilettante, our shallow culture's answer to the Renaissance Man. I think "serial entrepreneur" is the euphemism of choice with that lot. But some of the ventures embraced by serial entrepreneurs of Ragnar's ilk seem shady at best.

Also, I believe Ragnar, who has benefited from the scammy scheme that is the Global Information Network -- and who reportedly has quite a GIN downline -- is being less than forthright about his current involvement or lack thereof. Supposedly after the GIN sh-t started hitting the fan, he removed GIN links from his website(s), but reportedly he is still involved and benefiting, or trying to benefit anyway. Yet some misguided souls are apparently still looking at him as an ethical hero of sorts, painting him as someone who walked away from GIN when he found out it was a scam.

Cosmic Connie said...

Right on, ScuzzaMan. "Dr." C is all about the exaggerated and unsubstantiated claims. Of course he includes his mysterious time in Europe in those claims. He's banking on the fact that his hypnotized and gullible American followers aren't going to care enough to research his background and get the details.

Moreover, on his current web site he has a disclaimer that his site has been hacked into so a lot of the source information to substantiate his claims is lost and gone forever. Convenient, eh?

But NBD to his followers. They. Do. Not. Care.

It's as simple as that. Many of them may feel that Western medicine and the US government and other big insitituions have failed them, but jeez, SOMEONE has to be right, so they look to Lenny.

Big mistake, IMO.

Anonymous said...

I'm not much of a blog reader. The typical format of blogs, yours included is hard for me to read.
Your writing skill is quite good I must say as I was able to read way more than I typically would.
More to the point: I am a level V member in GIN, I'm also a visionary member and in the Inner Circle so, you'd think I would try to discredit all your efforts.
I'm not.
I think GIN is a great club. I've accomplished amazing things in my life since joining.
I've worked with Chris McGarahan, and KT directly. Never Dr. C ironically
I've put a lot of my own money into GIN. $150 every month, $1000's to upgrade to the next level etc. I've bought many tools. So, yes, I have a lot of my money into GIN.
But, I don't get how this is a scam. I've received WAY more value from the GIN club than the $1000's I've paid out.
I have a $300,000 + education from a top Ivy League college and my GIN education is far superior in just about every way.
But you make many good points.
I never had a good vibe from Dr. C.
But KT never set off any negative warning signs for me.
The way I look at it is this:
KT has had so much bad press. He has been ripped apart by the media. I think he wants to be seen as a huge benefit to society. He wants to leave a very positive legacy not be thought of as a scam artist and he's working on that through GIN.
I think he has too much on the line to F*** the entire GIN community. I think that if he F**Ked the GIN community, he would most definitely go down big time.
He has a lot to prove, and for me, so far he has done everything he said he would do, the club has done much more than I ever expected.
For me it's all good.
For me, worst case, if KT turns out to be a big scam artist, and he does end up scamming me, it will be a huge life lesson for me and I will have learned a priceless lesson. But until that happens, I'm going with my gut which says GIN is there to help not harm anyone.
I'm surprised you are committing so much time to your blog about GIN and you are not a member.
I'm curious why your are not involved personally in GIN yet want to spend so much time, using you obvious writing skills on this.
Are you just acting as an investigative reporter?
Anyway, I admire your dedication to your cause.
You make a lot of good points and you are respected by me.
I think GIN is a helpful club, but I will refer to your blog to hear how the people with the victim mentality are getting along.
If GIN turns out to be a big joke, I'm taking full responsibility for my life as I chose to make GIN a part of my life.

Anonymous said...

One other thing I wanted to add in support of your Dr. C. comments.
You are right, the math doesn't add up on how he could cure 35,000 people of cancer.
If Dr. C. did cure even 1000 people, you'd think there would be some of those people in GIN - in his downline - telling others how he cured them. As a top level member in GIN, I've been to just about every event. At almost all events, people have an opportunity to 'tell their story' on stage. Dr. C has brought up many people to the stage to tell their story. KT has given many many people the opportunity to tell their story as well.
In my entire GIN experience, I've never heard anyone on stage say they are one of Dr. C's past patients giving him credit for curing them of cancer. And it is typical in the GIN culture that you would give thanks to someone in your life that positively impacted you. Not one person said thank you to Dr. C for curing them of Cancer I have many GIN friends and they don't know any of these 35,000 people either.
Everyone that Dr. C. brought up to the stage was someone Dr. C met since GIN started (about 3 years ago max)not past patients from years past, and those people gave Dr. C. credit for making their life better but never for curing them of cancer.
So, out of 35,000 people, where are ANY of these people? You'd think that at least 1 person would come forward supporting the man that cured them of cancer.

Another point, according to the American Cancer Society, you are cured of cancer if the disease doesn't come back for 5 years.
So, for these 35,000 people, he would have to wait 5 years and go back and verify with all of them their health status, which is next to impossible to do.
Again making the math not add up.

Cosmic Connie said...

Thank you for your perspectives, Anonymous. In answer to your question about why I am interested in Kevin and GIN, it is because Kevin is a long-time con artist, in my opinion, who just keeps getting away with the most stupendous scams. GIN is one of the biggest boondoggles of all, and I think its potential for success surprised even him.

I do not, however, attribute the benign motives to him that you apparently do. I think GIN was a money grab, pure and simple. I think it was also perhaps a cynical test on Kevin's part to see just how big a lie people would be willing to swallow (the Swiss Alps meeting, the seekrit-society membership, the GIN council, etc.).

I think too that he saw the phenomenal success of The Secret, and that even though he probably believes most of that stuff is b.s., he saw what a money op it could be. Thus he incorporated it into the GIN "education," and recruited some of the stars of The Secret to help him promote YWIYC and GIN.

I am interested in this from an investigative-reporterish angle, but also from a desire to educate others. And then there is (I confess) the entertainment angle. True-dough is entertaining to be sure.

But I am also a little lazy, since this is just a hobby blog. As I've explained on some of my other Trudeau blog posts, he (and GIN) are low-hanging fruits.

I am curious about how the education you got from GIN is superior to your Ivy League education. Don't get me wrong; I don't hold Ivy League educations or any other traditional university educations in any special esteem, though many people whose views and work I respect have these educations. But I wonder what it is in the GIN education that is so unique. Is it the Law of Attraction/metaphysical material?

You also say you are an Inner Circle member. How much did you pay for that privilege? Were you in on the $50k promotion or the $75k one? And what specific benefits are you getting as a result of paying that extra money? Do you have the alien DNA too, or is that just a rumor?

You say "if KT turns out to be a big scam artist"... but, my dear Anon, he has BEEN a big scam artist since the 1980s. You say you haven't been harmed by him yet and I hope you aren't. When GIN goes down for good, hopefully you will not be left holding the bag.

And again, I appreciate your coming onto my blog and writing respectfully.

However, I think it is wrongheaded to imply that everyone who reads this blog or agrees with my points about True-dough -- and/or other hucksters -- has a "victim mentality." Some people who read this blog no doubt do have a victim mentality. But I daresay that many if not most others simply have a more realistic perspective of your leader than you do.

One thing you and I can both agree on, though: "Dr." C does not put out a good vibe.

I wish you luck, and I hope you will continue to read my blog, although I will warn you now that I snark about a lot of the subjects and authors that are apparently on the GIN reading list... The Secret, Abrascam Hicks, and so forth.

And if you're really ready for a dose of reality about some of these scams, and don't mind a little "salty" language, visit my friend Salty Droid's blog.

Anonymous said...

C Connie,
In response to your comments.
I'm in the $50K Inner Circle camp. That is about 1 year's tuition at a top school (Yale, Columbia, Etc). You learn a lot about the business side of GIN, the goals of the club, projected revenue, etc. You also are learning some amazing things you can use to really enhance your life. Things you wont find in any book I know of. We end every session with a human sacrifice just like at Bohemian Grove (I'm obviously joking).
In turn we do certain things each month that help build the membership base. All in a very loving environment. seriously, the vibe in the Inner Circle is that of complete love for humanity in general.
There is a financial benefit as well. Each year we get a percentage of GIN's revenue.
I've already received this year's payment which was just about a 10% return.
Still, worst case, I'm not going to lose my entire $50K. I've already go 10% of it back after just one year.
If GIN continues to grow, in a few years I will have my entire $50 back and then some. That's better than many traditional investments out there.
If KT is right and GIN gets really big, world wide, $50,000 could be the annual check.
I'm not in the Inner Circle to get rich, I'm in it to better myself.
Even if I did lose it all, I gained skills and techniques that have raised my wealth WAY more than the $50K. And I can make another $50K in no time.
In my business (outside GIN) just this year alone, in this terrible economy, I've made $410,000 more than the previous year. Could I have done this without my GIN education? Probably, but not as fast. And I'm not the only millionaire in GIN believe me. There are many many.
So many of us have our own successful businesses, and deal with so many scum people that I can't imagine that KT has pulled the rug out from all of us.
I bring up the actual $ amount as that is a quantifiable amount and it says I achieved a certain level of monetary success before GIN. I'm not a minimum wage person where I need my $150 monthly dues to feed myself and family.
I feel I have really grown as a person. My relationship with my family and friends is awesome.
My health is great. I have not been sick once since joining GIN almost 3 years ago.
How can that be a scam or bad in any way?
I'm telling you GIN is pretty cool stuff. You don't have to agree with me - I'm just saying . . .

Anonymous said...

Cont . . .
I've been around the block a few times, and if this is all a big joke and money grab, than me and my close GIN high-net-worth friends are all complete blind fools. I make a very good living and feel I'm very street smart and book smart.
I just don't feel that I'm getting bushwhacked in any way.
Since the Dr. C events the topic of the legitimacy of GIN comes up regularly amongst my GIN friends - most all have a high net worth, we go over things in fine detail asking critical questions to see if we are being scammed in any way.
Our conclusion: No, we are not. It's all good. GIN has some issues as nothing is perfect but the issues are not related to a scam or something unfair. Maybe you work for a big publishing house, I'm sure that place isn't perfect either. It's those types of things that I'm calling issues.
Have you seen a GIN major function? They are HUGE productions. I'm pretty sure you would be very impressed at the quality of these events. If this was just a money grab, no smart business man (KT)or enterprise would put forth the kind of money that goes into these events. These events are not my field of expertise, but there are usually 3000 people at these things. The food is top notch, the staff is huge to handle these events, they run like clockwork. They are massive costly productions. My guess is that they cost between $300K - $500K each to run. That's not the making of a money grab operation if you ask me. If a money grab was their agenda, KT and GIN could pull it off for much less.
Yes, they have these events to boost the member base, where you are probably thinking they can rip off more people, but even so, why spend half a million to get more people to rip off when they could do it though the mail or infomercial? Answer - they are not doing it to rip people off.
My opinion is that the events are a way to build the club through a very positive energy and in no way to scam anyone.
One thing I learned in GIN is that you really can not 'win' an argument. I know I will never be able to convince you toward my way of thinking about GIN. That isn't going to happen. And I could care less about trying to turn your perspective. I actually appreciate your perspective. Your perspective enables me to discern if I'm thinking about GIN correctly and ask myself if I'm getting scammed.
The most common saying in GIN is do that which makes you "feel good now". This excludes drugs and things that are not beneficial to others. GIN also teaches you how to 'have be and do anything and everything you want.
So, I'm feeling Good! I know how to have be and do anything and everything I want. And that is a wonderful place to be.
I encourage you to find that which makes you feel good and gain techniques so you can instantly feel better during those times when things happen and you need a boost. I found those things and techniques through GIN. I think everyone should make the most of their time here. I'm sure you will agree to that. For me it's GIN and the people I've met and things I've learned.
For you it obviously isn't GIN but you have probably already found that which satisfies that life requirement or are in the process of finding it.
Everyone deserves the best life possible, another thing you probably agree with. I want that for you and you probably want that for me. So we have a lot in common, besides our view on Dr. C. even though our thoughts about KT and GIN are very different.
Keep up the good work and I will definitely check out Salty Droid. I have no problem with the harshest of language.

Anonymous said...

so mr inner circle please tell us about the gin council that you must have met by now and all the 33 degree masons and KTs friends from the brotherhood and I'm interested what are some of the never before heard business things you have learned from KT because so far there is absolutlety nothing new or secret that has been realeased by GIn or KT and I'd also like to ask you a couple of things -your opinion on the 2012 video which KT released that was supposed to categorically contain all this new info that would benefit everyone so much that people had to upgrade to level 3 to obtain,which contained nothing and then how can you be lead by someone who blatantly lies to people like that... I mean do any of you challenge KT on this ?????I mean its so obvious that that video has nothing new in it but he did the big sales pitch on his radio show and on the member updates so its just a straight lie.Your thoughts ????Also you must have met all the people at the swiss alps by now for the original recording of YWIYC,there was so obviously no one there but KT himself I've never got an answer from anyone about this and don't give the line about muting the questions from the audience because you can hear noise from outside the room but not inside so there aint no one there .Things just don't add up and if it's such a loving place then release some real never before heard info so that we all know that some of it exists because so far its just more promises of down the line you will get this amazing new stuff but it never comes just like the 2012 webinar.

Anonymous said...


You pretty much nailed it.
Sounds like you are getting the GIN info for free. Pretty good deal for you huh?
Taking what you can get and sitting on the side lines criticizing it - sweet! So I'm sure you knew about the Training Balance Scale and the Teachability Index before and found that in books?
That's just level 1 (Kindergarten) stuff. And you know how complex a topic just those two items are and how to apply them throughout your life? Those 2 concepts alone are worth millions if you know what to do with that info. Hello!
Let met ask you, Who do you listen to? Give me a name.
No matter who it is, I can rip that person apart. Even if you say Gandhi I can find tons of things to criticize him on.
The other levels, which you probably have gotten for free - That a Girl Take, Take, Take! provide even more info. I don't think it is secret info per say but good luck finding it presented and codified and so clearly.
If you had lunch with Warren Buffet and he said, "Connie, I want to work with you and teach you about the Training Balance Scale", would you just dismiss it? That right there can make anyone achieve any dream they have. Badda Bing Badda Boom!
The GIN council:
No one can prove or disprove it so I'm not going to spend much energy worrying about that, I have you to do that.
The Swiss Alps recordings: They were probably re-recorded in whole or in part to enhance audio quality. Yep, that's a scam for sure! But I've met and know people that were there personally.
The 2012 webinar: If KT came out and said something like it's 99% sure that the world will end, Aliens, etc. people would hang him to dry. Because he said things may happen and there is not much to worry about, you take that as a scam? Did he have to say something wild in order for you to get your money's worth? Wait you got it for free - Nice!
He's going to come out with more info soon which I'm sure you will get for free.
Hey, you want to have coffee sometime? Don't worry I'll pay.
If you say yes, I'll 'give' you my affiliate code so you can join. Unless you just want me for my free coffee. Either way . . .

Anonymous said...

By the way Mr inner circle you and your high net worth street smart multi millionaire friends have already been scammed, YWIYC was not recorded in the Swiss Alps which kind of tells me that you either aint that street smart or you actually realise that it was'nt and it suits you to overlook the fact that your cynical loving leader could field imaginary questions in YWIYC and then answer them as if there were people in the room with him,I mean listen to it with good headphones on !!!Another thing I'd say to you is that you and your high net worth inner circle friends who care so much about humanity at your meetings should spread the love to the "scumbags"you mention that you have to do business with,or are the "scumbags" not part of the same human race that you proclaim you all love so much. Which leads me to my next point when you gave your beautifully measured response to Connie and you were "feeling good right now" ,you failed to answer the question about the alien DNA that guru Kev says he and the inner circle members have. Oh and while I'm at it please save your condascending arrogance and superiority Mr Inner Circle because the comment around checking in to see how the victims are doing smacks of the same enormous ego that your role model Kevie has,while in fact you are the victim and you don't know it yet .I've seen that used before in other modalities anyone who disagrees with the culty little group consciuosness and dares to bring it up is called a victim to shut them down and stop them speaking the truth about the rubbish that is going on which then protects the leaders hold over everyone and keeps the lie going on.

Cosmic Connie said...

I just got home after a long day away from my computer (though I did a little Facebook activity from my iPhone, but that's the extent of it). But I do want to address Anon Saturday July 14 10:57, who seems to have some very serious anger issues and apparently thinks that I have been stealing and listening to the GIN "training" materials. I have not and will not download any of the GIN training material. I've said this numerous times on Facebook threads and on my blog.

If you had bothered to read some of my previous posts, Anon, such as the very recent one called, "Independence daze," you would see that the extent of GIN member stuff I have seen was my accidental discovery, from a casual Google search, of a daily and monthly checklist/chart and the "yearly listening checklist." Of course you're going to say I'm taking it all out of context.

But let me repeat this again, and I'll write it very slowly: I have not listened to the Level 1 through Level 5 audios. I haven't even watched the 2012 video. I did watch and snark about one of Katie's promotional videos for his 2012 "revelations," but I have never seen the actual 2012 video and really do not care to. And I do not care to hear the Level 1 through Level 5 indoctrination junk either. Heck, I haven't even been able to bring myself to listen to YWIYC, though a former Katie insider sent it to me a couple of years ago.

But you can feel free to believe that I have been secretly listening to this crap -- and "taking" from Katie and GIN -- if you want.

Enjoy what time you have left on the GINtanic; I think the orchestra is still playing "Nearer My Fraud To Thee."

And thanks for the offer, but no, I still do not want to join GIN.

Anonymous said...

I'm confused please help my understand.
In your post to me you say: "...your cynical loving leader could field imaginary questions in YWIYC and then answer them as if there were people in the room with him,I mean listen to it with good headphones on !!!" (this implies to me that you have listened to YWIYC very carefully)
Then in your response to Anon you say: "I haven't even been able to bring myself to listen to YWIYC"
So, are you writing from first hand experience or just taking what people tell you as truth and fact?
Do you really want me to answer the alien DNA question?
Can you please send me the link, audio, or proof that KT said this? ("the alien DNA that guru Kev says he and the inner circle members have")
I've answered most of your questions but you didn't answer my questions. What's up with that?
And why do you nit-pick on the smallest details? After all I've told you, you want to nit-pick if KT fielded imaginary questions?
I've been to every Member Live Training event. Each one is recorded and given to the members to listen to later on to get the full impact of the NLP Cult Guru's words. When I get the recordings, you can't hear one person's voice or questions. It's like KT is there by himself. And I was personally there in the flesh. The recordings we get are word for word un-edited straight from the event, but the microphone doesn't pick up anything except the speaker's voice. The typical microphones used by a speaker are 'uni-directional' microphones, NOT omni-directional microphones. So they are not going to pick up the ambient sounds in the room. That is why he has to repeat each question. Maybe YWIYC was recorded in the Bronx or the moon, but your claim of fact based on not being able to hear much ambient noise is not accurate.
Also, you can have love for people and still think they are scumbags.
You can only be a victim if you think someone or something else caused you to feel bad. I can't be a victim and not know it yet, because I take responsibility for everything in my life. Do you?
If you call that "smacking in the face of my massive ego" fine, whatever. That doesn't make any sense to me. Ego is some term made up by the psychologists. It's not a proven thing - it's just a concept that some people think is good and or bad. Oooooo - massive ego is supposed to put me in my place - Ego Smeego. I don't even know what you are getting at. You think that I have this thing in my head that tells me I'm better than the rest of society? That's you judging me - you don't know me.
Which brings me back to my last question in my last post - Coffee?
My treat.
Last thing - Why do you assume I'm a Mr. Inner circle and not a Ms. Inner Circle?

Anonymous said...

As I said I'm not an avid blog reader or poster. I am intrigued by your blog as you know. I've tried to treat you with respect. You've come down pretty hard on me in my opinion.
I wanted to say a few things.
Not being a blog reader I didn't know that "I" was Anon. I thought that was someone's name on some facebook page.
So what did I do? I went looking around on FB for what you might be talking about.
Wow Again !! I had no idea that I was Anon. I found your facebook post where you are so excited about my Inner Circle status. It's like you caught a big fish and want to tell all your friends about it.
I assumed you were getting all the GIN info for free because you definitely are not a member. You seem to know so much about the GIN training what else am I to think?
So I guess you just stumbled upon it - That's part of your investigative reporting I guess.
I read the posts about me and feel it's of no harm to tell you more. You and your FB comrades obviously want to know so much about me. Like I’m this freak person that pretends to really benefit from GIN. Like it’s impossible to change your life from the info in GIN. It’s simple, I work at it every day. I enjoy the benefit and I keep doing it because I get results. Just like running 6 days a week, you’ll get better.
I’ll tell what I feel comfortable telling as I want you guys to know, I’m just a regular person looking to make the most out of life.
But first - please listen to your selves. You’re bashing GIN why? What do you gain from that? Can I assume that every one of you want something better in your life? Can I assume you would like a better life? You obviously don’t like GIN , but are you looking for something to improve your life?
I would think you want to improve your life. I sure do. Even the world's most successful people want to improve. That's why I joined GIN. I want to improve my life. I want the best life I can possibly have while I'm here. I mean give me a break.
Where's the scam? If $150 per month is too much and you feel you are not getting any benefits from your $150, than by all means quit!!
The country club I belong to has a monthly fee of $450 just for food and service items every month.
Are you going to criticize me for belonging to a country (Tennis) club too? How does that make me bad?
How are you guys benefiting by bashing GIN? You look for every little thing, nit pick it to death and say SCAM - Hoax - Run!!.
I have a Lexus - this analogy may or may not make sense. But I think Lexus is a great car. Just like I think GIN is a great club.
My car is only 1 year old but sometimes the hydraulic suspension doesn't level correctly. Sometimes the navigation updates so slowly that I miss my off ramp. This is like GIN, sometimes their affiliate checks are late, and sometimes they make a mistake. But do the Lexus clubs sit on blogs and say the car is a joke? NO!
Lexus has a warranty and they try to fix the car but they haven't yet.
GIN tries to fix things too. They will refund all your money if you don't like a function or event. But no one asks for a refund, because the events are great.
What about the GIN system does NOT work? It's so obvious that the system does work. But if you aren't applying it every day how would you know.
I work hard at it and apply it EVERY Day! It works and is amazing !!

Anonymous said...

Cont: The system:
Read books: - Come on. How can this be a scam, hoax, etc. Have any of you haters read these books? My 3rd grade teacher told me to read every day. You guys think reading is bad? Don’t like the books? Why? Just because the book ‘The Secret’ has that sweat lodge in the book doesn’t mean GIN is bad.
Listen to audios: That's bad?
Go to events: That's bad too? Surrounding yourself with positive people is bad? What are you guys all pissed off about - the cost of the events? They might be pricy for some people. Is that what this is all about?
Build relationships - Oh, that's bad too I guess.
Giving recognition to others: That's a scam for sure! Supporting other people in their lives, that's something few people get and GIN provides it in abundance.
My life has improved immeasurably!!
I have more free time now.
I'm a runner and a fast one at that. I'm now running 10K's faster than I was in college. All because of how I think now and use my mind - all things I learned in GIN.
As I said my health is top notch – and I have tons of energy all the time.
Yes my income went up over $400K in just this year.
I would say the biggest contributors to my rapid rise in income this year was GIN concept "training balance scale" and "teachability index". Those right there, from Level 1 were the key's to my success. But I learned how to specifically apply the techniques in Levels 3,4,5.
Did I mention I'm a full level 5 member, passed the test and everything. I guess I really drank the cool-aid to get to that level. Have you guys done it? Than you can only speculate.
I invest my own money too. I've done this for about 18 years. But since joining GIN I can consistently beat the market. So far this year, my trading account is up 36.7% I just checked so that's the accurate amount. (Account is with with ThinkorSwim if you think I'm a BS'er I'm not)I know all about credit spreads, Iron Condors and naked puts if that means anything to you.
The Inner Circle - yes i'm in - $50K. This is not BS either.
Meetings have been held in Ojai the last 2 years. Amazing - Amazing - Amazing info at the Inner circle meetings. Let me tell you all about it - Sorry I can't.
I haven't spent $100K in GIN but I've spent a lot. But I'm only spending what is comfortable for me. But I've spent more at my Tennis club than I have in GIN.
If I was making $30K per year, I would still be at level 1. I would work my ass off and eventually start making more doing something I love. Then I would go to level 2 and keep working my ass off. Working my ass off, not to move up through GIN but to better my life. We all deserve a better life. And it's not going to fall into your lap.
KT doesn't say you WILL be a millionaire in the affiliate program. He says you can.
Remember - he talks about delayed gratification all the time. Not get rich quick, he says that all the time. Oh - is that a scam or hoax? Do the right things long enough, consistently and you will be successful. It's not a new concept but it's part of GIN and it works and it's not a Scam.

Anonymous said...

He also says, find your passion.
For me I'm doing my passion and I'm concentration on my business. I am not concentrating on the affiliate program. That is not for me.
You or one of your FB people asked why would I be interested in GIN for the measly affiliate earnings.
I'm not interested it that. It's great for some people but not for me.
I'm on the East coast. I own my own interior design firm. Which is extremely hard to make work in this economy. I’ve grown my business significantly and everyone else in my field is laying off and closing their doors. Again thanks in large part to GIN.
I've known about metaphysics for a long time.
Yes I have an Ivy League education (Yale).
What else? Oh yeah, there are lots of people in GIN with very high net worth. Take it or leave it. It's true. GIN is not for people on their last dime. I think most people at Level 5 make over $500K per year. That's my guess. Are you guys going to find fault with that too?
Connie will post the news to all of you on FB and say the IC guy posted again. Am I a guy?
Anyway, you read my post looking for the bad in it. Please tell me how that mentality is good. Read my post and think: Humm, this person makes some good points, I guess I really don't know what's so bad about GIN. If it works for that person great, I don't think it's for me but I'm not going to find fault with someone who enjoys it.
Someone said I sound like Fred Van Lew - So what? Is Fred the devil? It that a bad thing?
Yes, if GIN falls apart, I will be surprised, but I will learn a lot from the experience and move on. I don't have my life hanging from GIN. I've been to restaurants where I've been ripped off. I simply don't go there anymore. If GIN turns out to be a massive hoax like you say, I'll have learned a huge lesson and I'll move on.
Just thought of something: Maybe you guys think GIN is a scam because KT drives around in a Bentley and has a lavish lifestyle all paid for by GIN.
This is his creation, GIN brings in LOTS of money, I'm totally ok with him taking a nice chunk. But I can afford a Bentley if I wanted one. He doesn't have a private jet, he rents them. His house of nice but not ridiculous. He also makes a massive bundle from all his infomercials (books mostly).
Call me blind, but his lifestyle hasn't gone up so much since GIN. He's always lived that way and he can afford to.
What else do you want to know?
30 Council members? Who knows for sure? Why worry about something you don't know. I don't know any of them but the concept seems logical and no one can prove it to be false so there's no scam there - yet.
I've already posted about the recordings in the Alps.

Anonymous said...

The Inner Circle Pay out: I joined the IC to gain more knowledge and better myself. I had the $50K and thought it was a unique investment. I currently don’t have any true residual income so this sounded interesting. I am a platinum member – barely, and make about $500-$600 / month but I’m not looking at that as Wow I hit pay dirt. I’m just putting that in an account and we’ll see what happens to it over time. I don’t focus on the affiliate program, but over time, 3 years I’ve enrolled enough people, slowly but surely so become a platinum. The $50K Inner circle fee could grow to some interesting money. That is if I believe the cool-aid talk from my leader. I just like the idea of earning money on a residual basis. Plain and simple. Let’s say GIN get really big, and I’m getting a check every year for $100K. Even a multi millionaire would like that. I have some clients that have stratosphere wealth and even they would get excited about an extra $100K for not doing any work.
You guys think I'm so naive? I'm not. What are you guys doing to improve your life? I'm doing something. What are you doing? Seriously, what are you doing to improve your life?
Please do something to improve your life. Don't say you don't want to.
You may be asking, how can this successful person have time to blog with Connie almost every day?
What's in it for me? By getting all these thoughts out, I have a very solid feeling that I'm doing the right thing by making GIN a part of my life. I never said GIN is perfect, nothing is.
In summary, I got the feeling you guys just can’t believe that I could be improving my life through GIN. Guess what – I am. Believe it and I’m not the only one.
Off topic.
Are you guys on Bob Trudeau’s side? Does he have the answers for you? At first I thought it was odd that KT’s own brother would turn against him. Bob was a full blown GIN level 5 member. Maybe he was only a Level 5 candidate. But nonetheless he was in GIN all the way. You should have heard him on stage at Dream Weekend saying how Great GIN WAS in front of everyone. So at some point Bob was a full GIN member. But look at Bob and look at KT. KT has it all and Bob doesn’t.
I have a very good friend. He has a super successful business and a very gifted life. His brother on the other hand is the opposite and they basically hate each other. The broke one keeps blaming the successful one for his failures. I haven’t read the entire FB page, but are you guys pro Bob Trudeau?
If so, what about Bob do you want to listen to? I’ve answered many of your questions, please answer that question.
Thanks. I enjoy the dialogue with you and I hope to understand your perspective a little more.

Anonymous said...

I'm on a roll (sourdough).
I am open to hearing the "Truth" about GIN. I've been a member for a long time. Haven't been screwed over.
But I read a quote from John Ginga where he says:
"i could write pages and pages on the negative stuff that i can feel happening in gin and I think its really important that the truth comes out"

OK - Great think negative thoughts!!
Please list the TRUTH
Please list facts
I want to hear the TRUTH.
Not things you think might be messed up but the real TRUTH.

If I have a blind spot, please fill me in and tell me the TRUTH.
Why is GIN a big HOaX and SCAM?
Please don't write it in vague well-maybe's and he probably did this or that.
Please write facts about current GIN stuff, not about his past 30 years ago stuff.
I'm totally open to hearing the TRUTH!
Believe me, if you can list the facts and the TRUTH I will probably join your side. I don't want to be part of a hoax organization.
If it is TRUE and FACT than you won't even have to convince me, I'll just quit as a hoax organization is not a match for my moral character.
Please do me that favor.
I can't find any FACTS that GIN is a HOAX but people like John Ginga seem to 'think' GIN is a scam.
If it is in FACT a scam and hoax, I will want to quit. I'll drop it like a hot razor blade.
I don't know of another source of information about the scam side of GIN. Maybe I have been blind . . .
Thanks so much.
Anon. :-)

Cosmic Connie said...

First off, it gets very confusing here when everyone is "Anonymous." Y'all could just make up names to distinguish yourselves from each other and you would be, for all practical purposes, still anonymous.

Actually, Ms or Mr Inner Circle -- and I am sorry if I got the gender confusion ball rolling by referring to you as a "he" on my initial Facebook post -- I thought the comment with the invitation to coffee came from another person with whom I've been sparring, not from you. This person had told me privately that they had sent a comment to my blog, and the "coffee invitation" comment appeared around that time. So if it did come from you, you'll pardon my confusion. That's what I mean about everyone being anonymous.

I promise I will come back to this conversation and respond in more detail when I have more time. My intention was to carry on this convo on Facebook and the blog simultaneously but I kept getting distracted by real life, and weather-related Internet outages made it cumbersome for me to do anything on the blog (I can manage Facebook on my iPhone pretty well, but blogging, not so much).

But for the moment, Inner Circle Anon, I want you to know that I took the time to carry some of the conversation to the GIN v XIN group on Facebook because I thought that more people who might need to see the the conversation would read it there. I didn't mean to be disrespectful of you by talking behind your back, as it were, and since the GIN v XIN is not a closed group I figured you and lots of GIN members were reading it anyway. But I really did not follow good "netiquette" and for that I apologize.

I do appreciate everyone's comments even when I am snarky in response.

However, let me say that it was not I who wrote "...your cynical loving leader could field imaginary questions in YWIYC and then answer them as if there were people in the room with him,I mean listen to it with good headphones on !!!" That was yet another Anonymous participant here. I think that in your comments to me you have sometimes been quoting or citing other people's comments, not mine.

As I've previously said, I have not yet listened to YWIYC. I might at some point and when I do I will let everyone know, but I have not yet listened to it, and when I indicate that I "like" someone's critical remarks about it that simply means I agree with their critical viewpoint in general. I've seen numerous conversations about the veracity or lack thereof of the YWIYC back story and my comments about that topic are based on those conversations.

Finally, nobody has said that the advice to read books or listen to audios is a scam. That's a straw man argument, as is the argument that critics are all haters who aren't doing anything to improve their lives.

And I am neither "for" nor "against" Bob Trudeau. I think he has an interesting story to tell but it's his story, obviously.

More soon.

Cosmic Connie said...

And also, IC Anon, I am going to provide a link to the conversational updates on the GIN v XIN pages. What I would like is for people to engage here as well as there. But I realize not everyone has time to engage everywhere, and I do appreciate your taking the time to post here, even though we will never agree about your leader, KT.

Cosmic Connie said...

OMT, Inner Circle Anon, before I go to publish a new blog post and then get back to real work: You said I acted all "excited" about nabbing a big fish when I posted on Facebook about your comment to my blog. All I wrote was: "Someone claiming to be an Inner Circle member wrote to my blog -- not the newest post, but the one about Lenny C. He was respectful so I was too. "

But if I mis-stated your gender I apologize.

Anonymous said...

Echo says...

I agree with Inner Circle Anon on all points. After reading most everything that has been posted (including your Blog, Connie), what has been stated as facts about GIN supposedly being a scam or a hoax has been nothing more than people's opinions. The focal point of all these arguments rest soley on "vague well-maybe's and he probably did this or that," as IC Anon puts it. While all that makes for an interesting read at times, I wouldn't find such information to be any reliable basis from which to draw a critical conclusion.

Anonymous said...

Just quickly Inner circle guy/gal I've quickly read first part of your post and it was me not Connie that replied to you.I'll read rest of your post later.Just one quick thing your answer about the recording ,Kevie says live recording Swiss alps super ultra rich participants bla blah blah I said I'm not talking about the questions from participants not being heard and your reference to recorded seminars and not being able to hear them,obviously if theyre blocked you won't hear them.What I'm saying is that if you listen with headphones on you can hear background noise from dogs telephones sirens and traffic but!!!! even while you hear all this background noise u never hear a thing from inside the room for over 10hrs recording how is it so???You sound like an intelligent enough person how can you explain this or rationilize it.The reason I come back to this small point is because it proves that Kevie is a big liar,that he lied from the beginning ,don't you get that listening to YWIYC !!there isn't anyone there it's totally different to a live recording!!!And if kevie is lying about that , there were no global elite in the room which then makes a gin council very doubtful and actually everything that comes out of his mouth.I have no problem with self improvement I applaud and encourage anyone for that,what I have a problem with is bullshit and people being taken advantage of.Maybe you do have a blind spot.

Anonymous said...

Echo ask:

To Anon "quickie".. questioning the audio. Dogs are a new addition to the story....LOL Haven't heard that one yet.

Is your question based on what you yourself heard through headphones, or are you just repeating what someone said they heard? My copy of YWIYC does not have any those sounds.

Also, I can attest to also being at live events and then hearing the audios and you cannot hear the audiance at all.

Cosmic Connie said...

Anon Monday, July 16, 2012 6:16:00 PM: You must not have read my blog posts very carefully, because I have repeatedly stated that my blog represents my opinion. Yet I think that a person reading my blog posts would at least have a little more material from which to draw a "critical conclusion" than would a person watching one of Trudeau's wacko infomercials for YWIYC.

But some points I make are based upon facts, not mere opinions. Trudeau's many misdeeds in the past, including the not too distant past, are well documented, and it is not unreasonable -- IN MY OPINION -- to infer that this particular leopard has not changed his spots.

Anon Monday, July 16, 2012 7:03:00 PM: You made a good point about the reason that you keep coming back to the supposedly trivial detail about the ambient noise in the room where YWIYC was recorded. Regarding this issue, GIN defenders seem to fall into two camps: (1) those who think the Swiss tale as told by Trudeau is literally true (and they offer up all sorts of technical or anecdotal rationalizations to bolster their argument); and (2) those who are trying to sweep it under the rug and say that even if Trudeau made the whole thing up, it's no big deal because the material is good and GIN is wonderful and yadda-yadda-yadda. But I think that it *is* kind of a big deal if it is a lie, and the secret-society crap is an even bigger lie so it is an even bigger deal.

Why lie at all, if GIN offers such wonderful benefits? If GIN is such a refined and classy and elite group of folks, why appeal to the lowest common denominator by doing those hype-filled, sleazy infomercials where a bug-eyed Kevie goes on about how people who are unhappy and DON'T invest in YWIYC (and GIN) are hopeless losers? And why make up the lies about the secret society? Shouldn't the material stand on its own?

In one of the comments up above, Inner Circle said s/he isn't interested in things that Katie did 30 years ago. But the felony stuff was not 30 years ago; it was more recent. And even after Katie got out of prison in 1993, he continued to get in trouble for dodgy business practices and outrageous, unfounded claims.

I've said repeatedly that I am not and never have been a GIN insider or a Trudeau fan, and that my blog posts are opinions based on my observations about Trudeau and my knowledge of his past. They are opinions, but I think pretty well informed ones.

GINsiders who are still on the defensive say I'm wrong and cannot possibly know what's really going on in their club. But I think that more truths are coming out now about GIN and Trudeau, and they're not pretty. Time will tell if the "naysayers" and "haters" are right about GIN and Trudeau, but I suspect that our version of things is a lot closer to the truth than the version being fed to us by the GINsiders.

When GIN goes away, those folks who had successful lives outside of the club, and didn’t give every penny to GIN/KT, will no doubt land on their feet, not much the worse for wear. I wonder how many will come back here to share a “confesstimonial” (to invoke a Salty Droid neologism). But I'm not really worried about them. I'm worried about the countless, nameless others. And that's one big reason I blog.

Anonymous said...

Echo continues....

In fact, as I'm thinking back to when these claims first came out about background noise... the report started with telephone or ambulance (not siren) first. I forget exactly which one was first, and then the other was tacked on to the story. Now, traffic and dogs are the newest additions. For accoustic effect is it????

Anonymous said...

My first time posting here. There are probably two inner-circles. One is totally fictitious and used by KT to conceal his total, hands on control of everything of substance. A second inner-circle exists for trust fund babies or lonely widows. Only the scam operator knows who they are. They certainly do not know each other. And they are not given power, but esteem. Those donors are not allowed to meet and mingle, despite what this other anon pretender says. That's the safest play for a con man. They might turn against him someday otherwise. It's sort of like bigamy. Each spouse has no knowledge of all the other spouses. This overall scheme has been used before in other scams.

Anonymous said...

Connie said: When GIN goes away, those folks who had successful lives outside of the club, and didn’t give every penny to GIN/KT, will no doubt land on their feet, not much the worse for wear. I wonder how many will come back here to share a “confesstimonial” (to invoke a Salty Droid neologism). But I'm not really worried about them. I'm worried about the countless, nameless others. And that's one big reason I blog."

First off, why is any other person responsible for someone spending their last penny or money they shouldn't spend? Explain this to me? What the heck is up with the person that does that? What's going on in their head?

So what are you suggesting, Connie ? That GIN be locked away under lock and key somewhere from me and other consumers who want it because of people who lack of responsibility? Rings of suppression of free enterprise, information, and opportunity to me. Keep the minions down. Slavery!!

Current GIN member said...

I have been a GIN member for a couple years now and am currently taking a "Wait & See Approach". I actually upgraded to the next level shortly after I joined, however, I never finished the training on level 1 before upgrading to level 2. I was told at 2 events I went to by fellow GIN members and by GIN itself that you should never do this and that I need to go through and be familiar with all the materials on my current level before upgrading. Then, a couple months ago there was this big falling out among some of the top GIN speakers and there was all this talk about GIN being on the verge of being bankrupt.Then, about 3 weeks ago, I got a member update from Kevin Trudeau stating that if you are an affiliate, you can pay the $1000 and join as a member, then immediately go back, pay the money and upgrade to level 2, then immediately go back and pay the money and upgrade to level 3, then go back and immediately pay the money and upgrade to level 4, then go back and immediately pay the money and upgrade to level 5 candidate. Then you can go back and do all the training later. Now, one thing they have always told us in GIN is to admire the people in the upper levels, and that those are the people you need to be talking to and getting to know. Now, I have a real issue with this, especially after getting that audio update from Kevin. Here is the issue I have. And "PLEASE" if I am wrong here with my assessment of this, please let me know. Let's say I was a toothless Hillbilly from West Virginia who couldn't read or write and had no desire whatsoever to learn to do so and I came into a huge fortune like Jed Clampet on the Beverly Hillbillies. Then in 2009 I joined Gin and I took a bunch of this money and paid a bunch of my Hillbilly friends to join GIN and then paid the money to become Inner circle, then I paid all the money to upgrade to level 5 and never did any training at all because I can't read and because I only have a 2nd grade education. Not only that, I'm rich now beyond most peoples wildest dreams and I am only having fun. Now, in GIN, I would have the title of "Founder, Level 5 Platinum, Inner Circle" and everyone would be looking up to me and praising me.I would almost be like GOD to my fellow GIN members. That in itself tells me that it's not about learning or about anything else other than the MONEY! Please tell me I'm wrong here!!! Also, let's say I did what Kevin stated in the that audio update and upgraded to level 5 candidate and did not do ANY of the training. Then in 6 months they came out with level 6 and it cost $25,000 to upgrade to that level. You can't tell me that if I walked up to GIN and told them I have not done any of the training, but I still want to upgrade to level 6, here's $25,000 cash, and by the way, here's an extra $5,000 for Kevin's Legal Defense fund, that they wouldn't accept my money and upgrade me anyway. I hope I'm wrong in my assessment here, but I rally doubt if I am. The evidence to the contrary is overwhelming.

Anonymous said...

Thanks Connie thats exactly what I'm trying to say and thats exactly the response I get from GIN members ,I get fobbed off like I'm an idiot.But you can clearly hear those sounds from outside the room but nothing inside the room so I'd say there is no block on his microphone and we are just picking up the noises as they occur and he is in a room by himself,which is a huge deal because it means he made the whole thing up !!!!!! And also that GIN is based on a lie ,thats a big deal.

Cosmic Connie said...

I'm really on the run today with 'real' work (that pays! yay!), but keep those comments coming. The beauty of it is that because the comments are coming in to this post instead of more recent ones that are specifically about KT, it is keeping the focus on Lenny C too. Two bernds... I mean birds... with one stone, so to speak.

Anonymous said...

To Echo listen to cd 10 at 50.57 ,might be a good idea to check it out rather than shoot the messenger,and you didn't read my post properly,you can be at a live event and have everything blocked ,when you listen to YWIYC you can hear noise as I listed from outside the room but nothing inside therefore Kev is by himself ,and yes I did hear it myself and if you put some headphones on then you can come on Connies post and say you have heard it yourself .too!!! So Mr or Ms smarty pants you have been to live events and then listened to recordings and not heard a thing well this "live event" that has sound blocked but has background noise ,just not from an audience full of super elite multi bigillionaires and of course don't forget the king!!!The other noises are there I suggest you find them yourself.

Anonymous said...

to current gin member that is pretty much bang on the "money" so to speak,and thats what kevie boy is all about the money!!And anyone who buys that crap wants to play that game of having a false position where people suck up to you for your imaginary status .Pay 17,000 and be a level 5 member and your something special that all other members look upto and bow as you walk past how pathetic .It means nothing if youe level 5 or level 105 it is a bogus system created by Kevie boy to make it glam to upgrade.My friend went to dream weekend and Harry Hobnob handed her his card which had written on it Harry Hobnob ...Inner circle ...ooooo wow weeeee inner circle let I'm so impressed !!! what a pile of crap.In one of the audios Kevin says at one of the events he had all the level 5s up with him in a room together and they were hanging out and he left the blinds open so the plebs below at the event could see what a great time they were all having !!!! I mean does anyone else get how manipulative this guy is,its so pathetic!!! upgrade to level 5 and you can hang out with me and you have really made it!!! Its actually very sad people dall for that

Anonymous said...

Another GIN Member said...

Dear Current GIN member,

You already have the answers to your own questions, if indeed you've been a members since 2009 and listen the audios.
Have you really listened? Because, if you have, then you should know that a member cannot be a Level V without taking and passing the Level V test. It's given in person. You should also know that out of the first 30+ people who took it, only one person passed. It's not an open book test, and it's certainly not cakewalk. As KT has repeatedly advised us, only members who are serious about this club and mastering this material will advance to Level V and above.

What I heard Kevin say on the weekly update you bring up is that if an affiliate really wanted to hear the special broadcast coming up for Level III and above, then they could upgrade to member Level 1, then Level II, then III by the deadline to hear it. They could then go back and complete the training. Of course, then he went on to discuss and point out that "technically" you can upgrade all the way to a Level V "candidate" as the test are on an "honor" system up to that level.

I don't find your uneducated hillbilly idea particularly probable. It was a TV show. But even if there were some isolated scenario like that, and especially knowing many Level IV and Level V members who have done the work in the Success Mastery Courses, I would not look down on any of them because of one person who didn't do any of the training. I don't get your line of logic there. For that matter, did Bob Trudeau or Dr C really DO any of the training?

As for the Founders and the Visionaries, well they helped build this club early on by sponsoring members. Some achieved Platinum. Why would anyone interested in this club or our benefits look down on any them for reaching those achievements?

Anonymous said...

just for you echo, cd 10, horn going off at 50.57 . cd 10 100.30 to 101.10 siren going off, how come we can here background noise from outside the room and him shuffling around at his desk but nothing from his "audience " in the room???!!!??? ?.It's rather ironic that when the siren is gojng off in the back ground ,he's talking about the advantage the people in the room have because .they are there !!!thats so funny. !!!There is no one there !!!!!Take your blinkers off echo and put your headphones on !!!We are doing you a favour exposing this stuff !! And if you haven't heard it on your copy of YWIYC then you did'nt listen.Also you have attended live seminars and listened to recordings and can't hear anything right,so on these recordings you can hear all the background noise from the street right but no one in the seminar ?Have another listen and get back to me .The other noises you can find yourself I can't be bothered listening to it anymore got better things to do!

Anonymous said...

Hi Connie, please do me a favor and post this comment to Mr Smarty Pants over the other. I corrected spelling, cleaned up grammer and should have looked before I posted the other. Sorry about that. Thanks, Echo!

Mr smarty pants, Echo here, got it... hear the ambulance or perhaps the police. Well, well.. that's a European siren and definitely not any siren sound I've ever heard here in the USA. I recognize it having lived in Germany for a time, as well as spending time in Alps. While this sound certainly doesn't definitively prove any location, now that I've heard it, your nit picking actually supports the viability of Kevin's account that this took place in the Alps.

In addition, it brings to mind one of the things Kevin says to his audience about how nice it is they can look out the windows in the room they are in and see the view of the Alps. I guess you missed that part in all your keen listening. I don't remember him mentioning the exact size of the compound, butyour presumption is that it's impossible for any sounds from outside to periodically be heard in that room. If indeed there is a horn sound somewhere, what makes you so sure it's not a being made in the area of the compound? Perhaps it was a delivery to the compound. Then too, how do you know the siren was not a staff member being taken to the hospital, or someone else in that area . The FACTS are you don't know, because you weren't there. They are many possibilities. It's quite apparent none of them fit what you wish to see.

As for the seminars I've attended, that pretty simple. They have been held in conference rooms, or conference centers, or The Rosemont Theatre, etc., where there are NO windows and accoustical walls. If you are in the audience you hear lots of things, people cough etc, but you don't hear them on the audio. However, I'm pretty sure remembering there's has been a time or two when you can hear a cell phone go off.... Here again, obviously you've never attended any of them to know that.


Anonymous said...

Also Echo your glorious leader Kevie admits there was background noise (dogs sirens telephones etc)in YWIYC and thats because he was at the Swiss chalet with the windows open and says the same crap,that you can't hear the questions cause it's blocked ,but if its blocked how come you can't hear questions but you can hear sirens horns telephones etc etc???!!!!???? no coughing shuffling laughing nothing nada but out the window off in the distance faintly hear a siren a horn etc etc etc why echo whyyyyyyyy ahhhhhhh its driving me crazy how did magic Kevie do it ?????????

Anonymous said...


As I recall he said the questions were "edited out." Doesn't take magic to do that. Beside, how many were there? Could be 2, 5, more...??? I take it you've never been in a room with over 2500 people while he's speaking. You'd be surprised how quiet it is 98% of the time.

Bottom line, I'm not particularly concerned about all this idle speculation. Most of it is sensationalized by a handful of people anyway....

Anonymous said...

Echo ,don't you get it Kevie boy says that ,Look out the windows and see the alps because he is setting the scene to launch his private mlm company GIN from his apartment .I'm not going to try to convince you Echo,but suffice to say that people have checked in sound studio and picked up all sorts of sounds babies crying etc etc,but not a sound from anyone in the room you still havent answered that echo, and the car horn sound is from an american car but hey you didnt even believe there were any sounds before my other post,so if you still believe that Ywiyc was done live in front of people thats your choice.But the whole thing is so obviously contrived and not a live recording ,but it doesnt matter what anyone says to you echo you will believe what you want to.I mean over 10hrs recording, all these background sounds, but not one noise from any of the global elite supposedly in the room!!!!!!!You think you would at least hear Kevins friend the king bark out an order at one of his servants at some stage.

Anonymous said...


Oh so Kevin lived in an apartment? Yeah right, LOL!

Who exactly are you convincing? ---- So what? There are over 20,000 happy members (and growing) in this club, so you might as well just get used to it. Besides, I know members who were invited to that event in the Alps. Yes, I'm aware no one bothered to fill you in on that part.

Cosmic Connie said...

Anon Sunday, July 22, 2012 2:03:00 AM:
It seems that lots of folks know somebody who knows somebody who knows somebody who may have been invited to the so-called event in the Alps, but even if invitations were sent out, anyone can invite anyone to anything. Nobody seems to know anyone who was actually there. Maybe Kevie hasn't yet been able to bribe anyone to make up a story about actually being there. In any case, he has more serious things to worry about now. Such as staying out of jail.

For those who haven't seen this already and who aren't so drunk on GIN-spiked Kool-Aid as to be unreceptive to common sense, there's another good post about the shammy nature of YWIYC on the Consumer Affairs page devoted to True-dough

Scroll down to
Maria of Bloomington, IN on June 20, 2012

Anonymous said...

It's Anon Inner Circle again.
I'm still a satisfied GIN member.
I've read what I can on this blog, the GIN XIN FaceBook page and the Consumer Affairs page on KT.
It seems the sticking point for most is if GIN is based on a lie because they can't tell for sure if the YWIYC CD series was recorded live. For some, the recording seems too 'clean' to actually be a live recording.
My stance on that is it was probably edited to some degree to make the CD series as high quality as possible. It was KT’s intention to distribute this to 1000’s of people and it had to be of very high quality.
Was it all acting? I don’t think so. I have recently spoken to the people I know that were personally at the event and I trust them. They said it was edited slightly to make for a better recording but the event was essentially the very same.
Is this a reason to discount all of GIN? I sure don’t think so.
Many live recordings by the Rolling Stones, The Beatles, etc were heavily modified to make the recordings better. In the case of the rock stars, content was even added or removed, but people think they are brilliant recordings and not considered a scam.
I am surprised at the amount of negative comments on the Consumer Affairs page. Most of the comments are from people that think YWIYC is filled with junk content. Or people that didn’t like the various books that KT sells. Or they don’t like the up-sell approach when they buy a book and the operator tries to sell that person something else.
This really has nothing to do with GIN and the quality of the club. If you don’t like YWIYC then don’t listen to it. It’s just like anything else, it’s not going to be for everyone. It does contain all the information KT claims. It provides tools to literally make millions or change your life in any way, but some people still don’t like it. That’s their choice and they should NOT be members in GIN.
When you buy something like a book off of late night TV you have to know what you are in for. It’s common practice to try to sell the customer on various extras once they are on the phone. Again you have to be disciplined and ready for this kind of thing. I personally bought some rare coins off of a late night program for my nieces. All I wanted were 12 coins and the operator tried to sell and sell and sell me on other stuff I didn’t want. That’s just part of the business.
Does that discredit GIN, I don’t think so.
Are there 30 council members? I believe so. I have no reason to think otherwise. I think I’ve been introduced to 3 of them, but wasn’t told they were specifically on the council. But until someone can prove or disprove this, I choose to believe there are 30 council members.
So, until GIN completely falls apart as all of you seem to believe, I’m staying out of the Blog and XIN business.
I’m expecting many of you will nit-pick the daylights out this post, trying to find little inconsistencies and say “lier, kool-aid drinker, etc.”
Nit-pick the details of my post all you want, it’s just a reflection of your character. How about just read it and take it for what it is – one’s person’s opinion. The opinion of a long time member, Level V, and in the Inner Circle. Someone with a high degree of success and someone who wants to make life as good as possible and someone who has not, in any way been shamed by GIN or it’s management.
The good thing is, there will be an answer to the question if GIN is a scam or not. The answer is TIME, in time we will see who is right. If GIN is still around and thriving in 5 years, I’d say there’s your answer – If you need 10 years, whatever, then 10 it is. Please note, that all MLM type companies go through a correction phase where membership drops to some degree. When, not if, that happens, please don’t think that is the end of GIN, it’s normal. Amway, Herbal Life, Mary Kay, etc. all went through it. It’s normal and expected.
Pease to all.
Anon I.C.

Cosmic Connie said...

Thanks for checking back in, Anon I.C. I am not going to nitpick your post. I will take it as you intended: one person's opinion. To me the big issue, the main issue, the overriding issue, is and always has been that Kevin Trudeau is behind GIN. Kevin Trudeau is a lifetime con artist and that, to me, is all a person needs to know.

But the other big issue, IMO, is that the whole GIN backstory is a big marketing lie. Kevin is a well-practiced liar. You and I may never see eye to eye on this issue and I am cool with that.

As for there being a GIN council made of the world's most successful billionaires and secret-society members, I think that is a big lie as well. Even you have to take it as an article of faith. as you said yourself:
"Are there 30 council members? I believe so. I have no reason to think otherwise. I think I’ve been introduced to 3 of them, but wasn’t told they were specifically on the council. But until someone can prove or disprove this, I choose to believe there are 30 council members."

Good luck with that, and "pease" to you too. :-)

Anonymous said...

hey there Inner circle I thought gin was a private club not an MLM company but thats the thing with KT isnt it bend the truth whichever way upsell sidesell overprice twist this and that, anything but be honest and truthful and when cornered just lie some more .He says all this stuff is secret society stuff but most of it is directly from the secret go and read it tell me what you think ,And the other stuff is scientology and if you havent done scientology u wouldnt know that its been ripped off from there,because the church of scientology doesnt release any of their processes and teachings but kevin did scientology and uses it all like its his own ,thing is he is a bullshitter and says its from his 33 degree brotherhood masonic lodge illuminati mentors of the gin council which is the key point to the whole thing its ripped off from various books and scientology not any secret society !!!!!! also why are all the payments late,why no platinum bonuses paid on time why no 10,000 for the summer bullshitanza special ,why does KT need to get thousands of dollars at the support kt dinners when hes a multibigillionaire ,why doesnt he just hit his intimate friend the king from YWIYC for a bit of his loose change to pay for his fine,why do so many people have complaints about his business practices ????? why do so many people thing hes a big con ????peace to you too but open your eyes because KT says hes leading people to freedom and happiness but what if its all a big lie ??where are you being lead? and what are you bringing people into because if its not based on truth then what have you actually got ?

Anonymous said...

To: Anonymous – Hey There Inner Circle,
You are correct, you said “if its not based on truth then what have you actually got ?”
That’s a big fat ‘IF”
1. You aren’t in a secret society so you don’t know the correlation between the things taught in GIN and societies like Skull/Bones, Free Masons ect.
2. Some of the things taught in Scientology are also taught in societies like Skull/bones, Free Masons, YPO, ect.
3. Secret Societies teach things that are also from common books like the Think/Grow Rich, The Secret, How to Win Friends . . .
4. GIN info is not ripped off from different books, this is all information that everyone has, Did Napoleon Hill Rip off everything from Ford, Carnegie, Price, Onassis, etc? Where did all those guys get the information from? The information has been around for eons. It just hasn’t been put together in this way before. GIN put it all together in a well organized fashion. You don’t like that? Fiine don’t join. KT NEVER says any of the information being presented is his!! He credits his source all the time. Where have you been?
5. What payments are late? You are full of it. Platinum bonus’s are paid on time every month, that’s coming from first hand experience !!! Summer sales checks are not even due yet. The incentive ended on August 1st. It’s now August 6th. That’s not late!!
6. KT doesn’t need 1000’s for his legal defense fund. He says that all the time!! Get with the program. Listen to why he asks for the money!! He want’s to know who’s behind him. When you pay $1000 or more you get way more than $1000 in return. This is another factor that takes place in the highest levels of secret societies, but you wouldn’t know anything about that.
7. People say he’s a con: They just don’t like what’s in his books or were upsold on more things than they wanted. Go to a major GIN event and talk to all the people there that have been cured of every massive disease imaginable because of the info they got from KT. Go to a major event and see all the people that have lost weight because of the info they got from KT.
8. It looks like you are the one who needs to open your eyes!!
So all of your ‘IF’s’ are debunked!! Wake up, you are not worthy of being in this club!!
Who do you listen to?
I know you are financially set for life, I can tell by your attitude, so how did you make all your money?
How did you become so learned and secure in your life? Please tell.

Anonymous said...

Oh and in case echo is around I think your 20000 happy members and growing may have dropped a bit seeing so many 1 star platinums dropped down to gold this month and take the last post to inner circle as being sent to u as well bing bada boom badda bop bop a lua a bop bam boom

Anonymous said...

U debunked nothing . What do u get for your 1000 bucks IC at Kts dinner that's worth so much more .. To sit in the prescience of s master bullshitter ? Please tell me what that's worth more than a thousand bucks . Aug 1 it ended its now aug 10 ... That's late !!! And the emails going out say we have to verify blah blah blah .. This offer is 2 yrs old what's to verify ? How long does it take . The whole offer was bogus and is what Kt does create a lot of hype about something to rope people into getting rich quick then tell them it's not a get rich quick scheme and I quote " money is flowing like lava" oh dear how pathetic !!! Let's see if any of the 10000 bullshitanza gets paid or as with the new crappy offer 25000 dollar go getter challenge where u have to jump thru a million hoops to qualify and then he reserves the right in fine print to pay you in gin tools !!!!! While in his pitch it's all about the money !! I mean how much more do u need to know to realize the guy is bullshitting ? And people get upset not at the info in his books etc they're upset because kt says one thing and then twists and turns and lies his ass off and does another . He truly is king of crappola. I strongly suggest you blah blah blah kiss my butt kt and worthy to be in your club haha what a joke so I can be seen to be a level whatever and friends with scam boy kevvie I feel sorry for the people duped by this guy . Oh and by the way you now seem to be an expert on secret societies and scientology content I suppose u have or are in both

Anonymous said...

the other thing IC is KTs main selling point never before released info from secret society thats the whole thing this mlm company is based on come on stop trying to defend this guys bullshit.Thats why so many people joined GIN secret info from secret societies and now your saying its available everywhere well why charge 17 grand for the first five levels why hide the cost of each level why say there is all this new amazing info in the 2012 seminar and then nothing ????And these things go on at the highest levels of secret societies !!!! and you know this how ?? cause KT told you ??? how IC ? you know about scientology how??? and who do you listen to ?? a bullshitting credit card fraud shonky used car salesman seriously who are you listening to ,someone whos been where you are and has what you want ???? been to prison for fraud and heading back there for exactly what Im talking about bullshitting his ass off and fleecing people of money .Theres nothing wrong with the info its the way he manipulates people that is a problem .

Anonymous said...

Echo here:

Wow has it been that long since I have been here? Where does time go anyway???

SO, to Anonymous Tuesday, August 07, 2012 2:02:00 AM:

You miss me??? Cool! I'll get back to you in a second.

To Anon Inner Cirle: Yes, your insight pretty much sums up my experience and assessment in talking face to face with GIN members. The internet personalities (and people who are not now or have ever been GIN members) seem to have their own twist. I've come to know a lot of members personally and well enough to conclude they are not the types of people who are out there fabricating stories. They are sincere and contradict this "sinking ship mentality" as do you. Then too, I have followed this internet "explosion" from the very beginning, and I do find so many inconsistancies and spin in the information some attempt to present as fact. What a shame, and yet the odd thing too me is many claim they have friends they are all so concerned about. What? So they seek to wipe out their friends efforts at the affilate program by posting a bunch unsubstanitated rumor and fluff? Wow.. I just don't really get that.

Back to Anon above:

Humm, so you take all the skuttle you here as complete truth, eh? You Buy-In to the story that 3 One Star Platimums with at least a 1,000 members in their downline suddenly all dropped to the exact same level - Gold - which means only 6 personally sponsored members now? Is that right? Really?

Here's my opinion on that rumor if it were true:

Winners keep going, and that's why they WIN!

BaDA bING bADA BOOM.. Ka-ching~
(there might be a couple of people who get that)

Have a great weekend everybody!

Anonymous said...

Three platinums down to gold one of them a one star in my upline echo that's how I know it's in my back office check yours if your indeed a member and see what's happened to your upline or down line and that's not conjecture or spin or a contradiction that's a fact

Anonymous said...

Winners keep going they also are smart enough to realize bullshit echo . I actually like the members I've met in gin generally I object to Kevin's bullshit not the concept of gin , and if you read my above posts I'm talking about Kevin's own private mlm company it's not a club at all . The reason the one star platinums have all gone down to gold which is a fact echo is because people are waking up to Kevin's bullshit , read the above posts ! Money is flowing like lava people are making huge ammonites of money these are his words on his summer sales bullshit bonanza then he says it's not a get rich quick scheme when people get fleeced !!! Also those sincere members that your talking to are they actually telling you the truth because the truth is that is one star platinums did go down to gold ... Check Eli rook and mike ginther .Also it may not be in the interests of these sincere members to tell their down lines the truth about what's happened as it may hit them in their pockets birds of a feather after all and if you can lap up Kevin's bullshit maybe it's no problem to also pass the bullshit on either way echo the fact is there was actually those downgradings and if anyone is telling you any different then they r now spreading untruth , maybe check it out rather than shooting the messengers ..... Kaching to u too maybe you'll get that maybe not

Anonymous said...

now i feel sorry for Kevin as well

Cosmic Connie said...

I'm still following the conversation though I haven't been participating. I still stand by what I've been saying consistently since I began writing about Trudeau and GIN in 2009: Kevin Trudeau is a serial con artist and GIN is a big con. The rest is just details.

Anonymous said...

Since this is a blog about Dr. C or what ever his name is I thought this would be a good place to find information about the police allegations that no one wants to discuss on other sites.
C. Connie, do you have a source for the information or have you blogged about it? I'm looking but can't find anything.
But whatever it is, it sure sounds important as other sites refuse to post the information.
If you can enlighten please do.

Cosmic Connie said...

Anon, I have not written a blog post about this latest information because I had no inkling of it at the time I first wrote this post, and frankly, from what I have seen, the "new" info is pretty appalling. I am still trying to figure out the best way to approach such a topic on this forum. However, it seems that it is being discussed openly on Salty Droid's blog.

Anonymous said...

Connie, do you have a link to where the Salty Droid is discussing it?
That isn't the easiest site to navigate.

Anonymous said...

Never mind - I found it - thanks

Anonymous said...

Hey Cosmic,
It's been a while. It's IC Anon. Anyway, I wanted to drop you a line and let you know that even I no longer think GIN has a chance for survival. KT was sentenced to 10 years yesterday. I was holding out hope for this club. A club that, IMO, really was geared to help people. I know it helped me. I admit that KT really F'd up when it became basically proven that the GIN council was all made up. At that point I was out of the club.
So, in a nutshell, you were right. The leader of GIN (KT) made some big lies to the entire club membership and his credibility was crushed.
Did I learn a lesson? yes.
Will I trust KT/KY again? NO!
Do I feel bad about all this? NO.
It was an expensive lesson and I'm sure it all happened for a reason that will benefit me later.
Thanks for your blog and your constant attention to all the negative information out there.

Over and out.
IC Anon.

Cosmic Connie said...

Thank you for sharing your story, IC, and for your continued participation in this conversation. It was an expensive lesson for many, but it sounds to me as if you'll be okay.

I think GIN has a chance of surviving in its pale, re-branded form, but that's up to the courts. And even if GIN ultimately goes away there will be many other flopportunities just waiting for the people who did NOT learn their lesson.

For Katie is far from the only scammer out there, and GIN is far from the only scam.