Whirled Musings

Across the Universe with Cosmic Connie, aka Connie L. Schmidt...or maybe just through the dung-filled streets and murky swamps of pop culture -- more specifically, the New-Age/New-Wage crowd, pop spirituality & religion, pop psychology, self(ish)-help, business babble, media silliness, & related (or occasionally unrelated) matters of consequence. Hope you're wearing boots. (By the way, the "Cosmic" bit in my moniker is IRONIC.)

Monday, April 02, 2007

Major objections to Secret naysayers

The battle between the Secretrons and the naysayers continues. Tony M., one of the Descended Masters and random instigators I mentioned yesterday, alerted me to a new thread on the Powerful Intentions forum, "Dealing with Nay-Sayers…including the Almighty Oprah." The thread was started by a member who goes by the name of Rev. Jackie Major.


I suppose a little background info about the Rev. Jackie is in order. On her personal page on the PI forum, Rev. Jackie tells how she has used the Law of Attraction to her benefit:

My health has really come around since I zeroed in on my unconscious thoughts that I re-play throughout the day. Now that I realize that every thought is like a magnet, I visualize my magnet and heal myself. Using the powers of visualizing perfect end results! My health is balanced and my wellbeing is grounded, allowing me to continue my work as a Healer.

Seeing as how magnets work on the "opposites attract" principle, this must mean that the Rev. Major is thinking about illness in order to attract health. Or perhaps she just has a favorite refrigerator magnet with an inspirational saying, and she visualizes that in order to get healthy. As for her work as a Healer, she writes, "I have trained/certifide [sic] as a 'Clairvoyant Minister' and this means that I work specifically through seeing energy and seeing a means to which to affect [sic] a healing (as called upon) through our higher-self information and angels."

Anyway, it seems that the Rev. Major is concerned about the negative Nellies and Neds who are trashing The Secret:

As we all know, the Secret had an excellent start out of the gates through the Internet, wherein it's [sic] energy found those of us who could embrace it's [sic] intention through the laws of attraction- NATURALLY, finding those of us who were ready for this LEVEL of information, freed from 'the voices' who would cast doubt. (Discussion panels on Larry King, Newsweek, etc.)

As the Secret grew wider-spread, the critics came onboard zeroing in on the (dissected and mis-conceived) limitations, based on their own UNRESOLVED fears. This is called 'projection.'

That is only the beginning of Rev. Major's message – she went on to address some of Oprah’s latest remarks – but the beginning is the part that really caught my eye, so I wanted to address it. First of all, Rev. Major, speaking as one Reverend to another (yes, I too am an ordained minister, though admittedly not a Clairvoyant one), I respectfully disagree with you on a number of points. For example...

1. The information about The Secret found its way to you and thousands of other recipients not because you were "ready" for this high level of information, but because every one of you just happened to be on the mailing lists of one or more of the New-Wage hustledorks featured in The Secret. They had agreed to help the then-budget-strapped Rhonda Byrne publicize her infomercial by spamming everyone on their massive email lists. In other words, word about The Secret first came to you not through some mystical natural law, but through viral marketing. And I probably don’t need to remind you that viral marketing would not be possible without the advent of the Internet and computers, which were the result of developments in science and technology (a product of that reductionist Western mindset so many enlightened people love to hate) – not some mystical, magical Universal law.

2. There were critics on board The Secret’s New-Wage party boat from the beginning – even before the DVD was released. And some of us hopped on board while The Secret was still in the honeymoon phase and was getting mostly-favorable media coverage. But most of y’all were just too intoxicated on The Secret and LOA to notice us.

3. During that honeymoon phase, there was indeed a lot of non-critical coverage of The Secret, Larry King’s two-part paean (November 2 and November 16, 2006) being among the most striking examples. This fawning coverage had us "naysayers" pretty riled up, and we didn't hesitate to speak up about it. But no one really seemed to be listening until Oprah came forth in February 2007 touting The Secret. THEN the media began noticing – and spotlighting – the criticism that had been there all along. And more criticism emerged as the media’s talking heads began to realize that any discussion of The Secret, pro or con, was good for ratings. It was about this time that some of the LOA-ers started coming down off of their nearly-one-year benders enough to notice that there were some pretty serious charges against their new drug of choice. Their first response was to accuse the critics of being fearful, negative, hate-filled or simply jealous of The Secret’s astounding success.

4. The limitations of The Secret are within The Secret itself and are not a "projection" of the "unresolved fears" of the critics. One of the very best summaries of the major falsehoods and deceptions in The Secret can be found on this excellent post on Calista McKnight’s blog. It’s long but well worth reading.

The discussion begun by Rev. Major on the PI forum continued, and it got pretty interesting, I must say. A participant named Livia explained how she dealt with naysayers, citing a practice called "segment intending," as explained in Esther and Jerry Hicks' book, The Law of Attraction:

That has been the most powerful way for me to avoid the pull of naysayers. Segment intending is simply about parceling your day into segments so that you can clearly articulate your goal for that segment and thus feel good one segment at a time until you get the hang of doing it all day long!

In other words, it's all about consciously preserving those good feelings, a few moments at a time, rather than actually listening to the naysayers or critically examining one's own beliefs. (Memo to Livia: Maybe you are being "pulled" in the direction of the naysayers because on some level, you suspect that much of The Secret is b.s.)

A few folks raised some other issues. Some focused on the recent Oprah segment that Rev. Major had cited in her opening thread, in which Oprah grilled a cancer patient about the efficacy of LOA. Oprah's confrontational questions were apparently what prompted the Rev. Major to call the Big O a "naysayer." (All I can say is that if Oprah's a Secret naysayer, I'm Mother Theresa.) One forum participant even touched on some of the objections that critics of The Secret have raised. These folks were summarily dismissed by the Rev. Major, who threatened to delete her thread if people didn’t behave themselves. So here’s the link; read it while you can.

And then get back to Calista’s blog and read some more about Oprah’s great love affair with The Secret. Despite the Rev. Major’s contention that Oprah is a naysayer, it appears that the Big O is definitely on The Secret party boat too. Unlike the Secretrons, however, she’s not giddy or high; she seems to be stone-cold sober and pretty darn calculating. There’s money in this for her – lots of it. As Calista says, "Be afraid. Be very afraid...

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12 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Love your blog!

Reading the post by the Rev. Jackie Major, It became obvious to me that some of the PI/Secret people are quick to attack someone with a different view. The self proclaimed Reverend has, like many of the secret people, a single narrow view that excludes or dis-allows the possibility that other are experiencing their own reality.
I remember a leader of a powerful European country around the 1940’s who was also determined to eliminate those who had different beliefs (nay-sayers).
It’s a good thing there where people back then, as now, that say, wait a minute lets see if this passes the common sense rule!

PS The Rev. Jackie’s bio says trained and certified, no mentioned of being ordained.?

Monday, April 02, 2007 5:57:00 PM  
Blogger Cosmic Connie said...

Thanks for the support, Anon! I have no idea if the Rev. Jackie is ordained or not, but most of the folks who call themselves "Reverend" *are* ordained, or at least claim to be so.

Monday, April 02, 2007 6:28:00 PM  
Blogger Calista McKnight said...

I think I'm too late. It appears the PI thread was deleted...

I can't believe someone would think Oprah is a Secret naysayer.

Excuse me, but is this person a dingbat or what?

Even if the law of attraction is real (which it ain't), this person is a very poor student of it.

I actually try and stay away from the PI forum because it reminds me so much of Aldous Huxley's 'Brave New World'. There's plenty of soma and hallucinatory fantasies being dished out and consumed over there.

That place just gives me the willies....yuck.

Thank you again Connie for the references to my blog. I truly appreciate it.

And I agree with anonymous; I love your blog too!

Monday, April 02, 2007 11:34:00 PM  
Blogger Cosmic Connie said...

"There's plenty of soma and hallucinatory fantasies being dished out and consumed over there."

Soma? Did someone say Soma? Hey, I knew there was a reason I liked that place. Maybe they have some Vicodin too, LOL.

Thanks for the praise about my blog, Calista.

I understand why you think the PI forum is a little creepy, but I think it's a good study in the pervasiveness of New-Wage delusions.

And it looks like you're right about that thread having been deleted. I just happened to copy and save it at one point before it was deleted, though. Although there may have been a few more posts after I did that, the material I was able to retrieve should tell the story pretty well, if you care to read it. Of course I did not edit for spelling or anything else.

Here goes...

===

Rev. Jackie Major writes:
As we all know, the Secret had an excellent start out of the gates through the Internet, wherein it's energy found those of us who could embrace it's intention through the laws of attraction- NATURALLY, finding those of us who were ready for this LEVEL of information, freed from 'the voices' who would cast doubt. (Discussion panels on Larry King, Newsweek, etc.)

As the Secret grew wider-spread, the critics came onboard zeroing in on the (dissected and mis-conceived) limitations, based on their own UNRESOLVED fears. This is called 'projection.'

Oprah did a few segments on The Secret, (the first two segments were all positive) where last night she was talking with someone who has breast cancer and made the decision to hold off on any medical treatment for six months in order to own her health and confirm the decision to heal herself through visualization, and changing her negative thoughts that may be source of her illness, including her dietary habits and other environmental influences. She clearly stated that she will see the doctor in six months to seek further treatment if necessary.

What was intersting to me, is that this woman had already changed her use of language. She had already extracted fear-based sentences that would confirm her illness. I found this to extremely intriguing. As she would not submit to Oprah's perception that she is a 'victim of cancer.' In other words, this woman is choosing not to be a victim of her circumstances. She is being a creator in the present moment to create her future, clear of any cancer.

Oprah kept coming back with "You don't think that scarificing a breast to save your life is worth the effort?" (Paraphrased). The woman said "No, I would rather heal myself first." And Oprah came back with "Is your health worth saving? And the woman said "Yes, it is." Oprah said, "Well, I can live with that." Then Oprah went on to say there are other laws in the Universe to consider besides the laws of attraction, such as the laws of life and death... Mind you, I love Oprah, yet in this instance I wish she would had given deeper thought to this matter before broadcasting doubt. (Fear.)

The only constant in the Universe is 'change', herin the opportunity to overcome your fearful restraints of the past. The power is to recognize change as the miracle through which you can heal within each moment that is the present. ---Change is necessary.--- Resisting change results in your refusal to accept your opportunity to heal and transcend the limitations of the past... This what I belive Oprah was intending to say. (IMHO)

All in all, it seems that residual fear is underscored by challenging our greater experiences of past limitations and these memories that pollute our belief in creating the future, while concurrently seeing the present moment as a constant opportunitiy to be co-creator with the God of our hearts.
Retraining our habitul response to past experiences is what is needed. As in the biblical reference "NAB REV 1:8 The Lord God says, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the One who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."
Embracing the statement "I am" in retraining your thoughts to healthful, abundant perceptions. This is a powerful tool through which we can join as co-creator, with the God of our hearts in our day-to-day lives.
Even though there are other Universal Laws besides the laws of attraction, I have found that the most common sense and direct path to invoking healthful and positive life change has been using the law of attraction as a clear and direct means within my own healing. (The results have been incredible!) This is why the movie has been so powerful, because I could reap the benefit of the message before the critics arrived to insert doubt on its very meaning and intention.
Don't let the 'critics' ruin your joy or take away from your journey.. own it for you!

How are you balancing the laws of attraction as they operate in your life? Please share what you are doing to help release the past. How are you invoking the powers of the laws of attraction? What is working?
Thank you & many blessings,
Jackie
04/01/07 04:10 PM
===

Joy P writes:
I would like to share that I applied the secret to my own health issue. I had Hepatitus-C. I was on treatment and couldn't function -- and the treatment caused more issues to develop - pre-diabetes, thyroid problems, weight gain, depression, and alot more. I took control of this situation - stopped all treatments, and have never been more alive than I am today - disease free. "Your Wish Is My Command"
Joy P.
04/01/07 04:18 PM

===
Rev. Jackie Major writes:
Good going! The liver is a filter organ. It manages the way our body can manifest nutrients and supply blood with cell healing power. Bless you with your ability to own your life and move forward. Keep on girl!
Jackie
04/01/07 04:23 PM

===
Diane M writes:
Thank you ~Thank you~ Thank you~ This was so beautifully written.
~Peace~Aundance, Limitless~Love, Eternal~
04/01/07 08:08 PM
===

Carol O. writes:
Oprah is pretty Awe'Mighty in my eyes and I am very appreciative she uses her life to bring so much knoweldge and information to the world.
For over 10 years I have used segments from her shows in personal development groups for homeless women and have seen huge shifts in Awareness and action, resulting in sustainable changes as a result of her program. and her soul calling to be of service.
re the interview referred to here.....I think it was wonderful that Oprahs line of questioning gave the breast-cancer story-teller the opportunity to model clarity and focus whilst Oprah continues on her journey of Wisdom unfolding along with the rest of us.
Carol
04/01/07 09:04 PM
===

Mary W writes:
Something I thought I'd share for your consideration, also,
is that Oprah... in her role as 'hostess', is probably frequently
asking questions for others.
In other words... there are times that she's not asking from
her own perspective or understanding... she's asking a question
that she has learned is likely to be asked by a typical viewer --
that's one of the reasons she has attracted so many 'fans'...
though the show is called OPRAH... it's not all about Oprah -
she let's herself be a voice for others... sometimes playing 'devil's
advocate' and sometimes asking questions that she, personally,
already has an answer that satisfies her.
04/01/07 09:22 PM

===
Rev. Jackie Major writes:
Well, I agree Oprah's contributions are far beyond what anyone in her position has done and continues to do... however this discussion is about your healing journey.
I reassert this inquiry "How are you balancing the laws of attraction as they operate in your life? Please share what you are doing to help release the past. How ar you invoking the powers of the laws of attraction? What is working?"
Thank you,
Jackie
04/01/07 09:36 PM

===
Carol O writes:
Jackie you wrote the post with a provocative subject line, followed by criticism in your observation, so it is not surprising people will respond to that as well as the content.
We often think we can determine what our posts are about in cyber- forums but others might choose to respond to the content as well as the direction and the thread unfolds as determined by the collective views and opinions.
Carol
04/01/07 09:48 PM

===
Demi A writes:
This is what I have a problem with when it comes to the secret. I by no means doubt the ability of the person to heal themselves, in miracles and I am a Christian myself. However, there are times when I think there is a fine line between LOA and just plain self-delusion. I worry also when someone voices dissent and they are targeted as being not spiritually enlightened yet as Oprah seems to be at this point. Or when someone does apply the secret to their health condition and the miracle doesn't happen and they are accused of not having believed enough or not fully practiced the secret. It smacks of old time conservative/fanatical Christianity where if the miracle doesn't occur, then it was the person's fault, they just didn't believe enough. I don't think there is anything wrong with Oprah asking these questions. I would also like to know that after a while, should the secret not work for this woman that she won't just keep deluding herself and not do what else is necessary to save her life. There are plenty of tragic stories of people deciding that they absolutely believe in their ability to heal which are now six feet under and more tragic still is when parents decide for their little children.

Sometimes the real miracle and the secret in its truest form is that God gave us the ability to be intelligent enough to have a wonderful thing called science and medicine to heal us when we are sick. The human race believed it could find answers to disease and has found a good deal of them through science, is this not the secret in action on a global scale. As recently as this week I heard of a story where a scientist found an enzyme in cancer cells which if can be turned off, will essentially stop almost all cancers from developing. I don't think there is anything wrong with turning to science or medicine if you can't heal yourself. Afterall, there is a great quote that says that God helps those who help themselves.

So by all means use the LOA to bring about healing and I have used it myself with success, however, don't do it blindly. God might just be trying to reach you to bring you healing through a doctor whose LOA might be that he or she be a great healer in life.
Posted by Demi A.
04/01/07 10:00 PM
===

paula s writes:
What's really interesting is that I used to look up toOprah as being "sooooo far" above me...and since The Secret, I realize that she is just a person, like me...like you...and that her experience is valid but no more valid than mine. So if Oprah sees The Secret differently than I do, it's all good with me because I know what I see and feel and believe :)
:) Paula
04/01/07 10:15 PM
===
Carol O writes:
Paula on one of her anniversary shows, Oprah discusses that very thing....that whilst people may project that she is so different and in the realm of the stars, in fact we ALL are Stars in the making so to speak

She created her outstanding demonstration of her vision from the perspective that she is just another audience member, learning, growing, asking...but happens to be in the hosts seat.

I think it is that level of authenicity and that she asked God to make use of her life that we see the phenomenal impact of her inner-world played out so profoundly in the outer world....and of course that she has a TEAM and co-Visionaries who work just as passionately and creatively behind the scenes...
Oprah has been through her own rite of passages and developmental stages to of course and brings her lessons as B'lessons with her...

The Process aspect of the understanding and application of the Law of attraction is important too:
Carol
04/01/07 10:29 PM

===
Rev. Jackie Major writes:
Interesting-- we are all talking about Oprah, but so far, only one person has addressed the origional inquiry, the purpose of my starting this thread, which is to share something more specifically to your journey.

Hence "How are you balancing the laws of attraction as they operate in your life? Please share what you are doing to help release the past. How ar you invoking the powers of the laws of attraction? What is working?"

We could analyze whether or not we think Oprah is right or wrong. Or if I am right or wrong. My point is to say, that the Secret is a powerful tool. And if you have read my origional post (albeit long) you will see that I am not condemning Oprah or for that matter, anyone who has an opinion other than myself or differing from anyone who critisizes the Secret. Oprah is a powerful influence and I am willing to challenge her perspective, whether she is representing several people or not, when she broadcasts an opinion, is affects many.

My point is to say, that before the 'nay-sayers' or 'devils advocates' came onto the scene, the Secret was having profound results for MILLIONS. (And still is.) What I found interesting was the chorus of critism came from those (not just Oprah) who would entertain fear before faith. Is this healthy? There is not a genralized answer for anyone as we are unique unto ourselves.
I am challenging within myself the worst source of dis-ease, and this is to go deeper in my willingness to heal. Given the mortality rate of women in my family who have died from breast cancer, (and other kinds as well as different diseases) I am willing to explore new avenues in thinking and wonder if certain thoughts repeated, can 'activate' the potential through which cancer (or other illness) can be 'switched on.' If I locate that switch, perhaps I am empowered to switch it off, or even better, rid myself of it altogether!
There is still so much to learn. And if I get cancer in the future, it does NOT mean that I have failed in thinking postively or did something wrong, rather an opportunity through which to embrace a deepening journey of my experience as spirit in a body as I relate to the God of my heart.

Fanatical I think not, rather, committed to a way of thinking/being that may be what is needed to heal, no matter the status of my health. I know I am blessed.
Again I assert, "How are you balancing the laws of attraction as they operate in your life? Please share what you are doing to help release the past. How are you invoking the the laws of attraction? What is working?" ( And if you want to perpertuate a negative debate, please locate another thread or start your own discussion releative to your interests.)
Peace,
Jackie
04/01/07 10:58 PM

===
livia d writes:
For me what is working when I get confronted with nay-sayers is to focus on the 'power of now'. Right now I can choose to feel good. And now. And now and now.
In their book, the LOA, the Hicks' talk about segment intending. That has been the most powerful way for me to avoid the pull of naysayers. Segment intending is simply about parceling your day into segments so that you can clearly articulate your goal for that segment and thus feel good one segment at a time until you get the hang of doing it all day long!
- Livia
04/01/07 11:06 PM
===
Elaine H writes:
Jackie,
My "breakthrough" in using the Secret is to give thanks for already having that which I desire, and then feeling the flood of gratitude that overwhelms me when I give that thanks.
When I read "Converstions with God," one concept jumped out at me....the concept that explained if one is mentally saying "I want (fill in the blank)" while asking for what you want, the lack of what you want is implied...in other words, if you "want" something, then that something is not yet in your life. In my mind, it seems logical that if a person continually "wants" things, then they will continally find themselves "wanting" those things, without those things ever appearing in their lives.
I've been giving thanks to God for blessings I've imagined, and some of them have arrived in an amazingly rapid fashion. In fact, just two weeks ago, I was lying on the couch saying thanks to God for my new job and the phone rang with a request for a job interview...and it was an interview that resulted in my new job.
Just LOVE it when that stuff happens!
And please know this is no attempt to say "this is the way to do it." It is simply what works for me. As a Quaker, I have a daily silent communion with the God, so giving thanks is just one more aspect of communing with what we Quakers call the Light.
Blessings to all and wishing you all your heart's desire,
Elaine
04/01/07 11:14 PM
===
Rev. Jackie Major writes:
Livia, do you mind breaking down "In their book, the LOA, the Hicks' talk about segment intending. " What is LOA and the 'Hicks Talk'?
Also, yes gratitude is so powerful, no matter how bleak things appear at times, Gratitude is a powerful way to leverage out of depression and / or darkness, as where these is darkness, there is Light. Always I have found this to be true, and still I have to remind myself often. I loved CWG, as this was truly a turning point in my journey of self-healing.
Peace,
Jackie
04/01/07 11:38 PM
===
Lisa R writes:
I think you can't possibly be focused upon the outcome you intend (complete healing free from medical intervention) as long as you put a time limit on it or allow yourself to be "open" to the possibility" that you might need medical treatment. That's just simply not intending ANYTHING. You're either a player in the game, or you're a pawn.
04/01/07 11:42 PM
===

Rev. Jackie Major writes:
Interesting point Lisa. Why does it have to be either / or? What do you mean by being a player as opposed to being a pawn?

To me, time is a man-made concept that exists outside of us. However, time can be a blessing by way of giving ourselves the time to assimilate or come to an understanding/s in seeing our (personal) relationship to the God of our hearts. When we feel we understand, we are able to invest faith in what we 'know' is true.

By either / or, are you saying either you have faith or you don't?
Jackie
04/01/07 11:56 PM
===
Carol O writes:
Jackie- you attracted everyone talking about Oprah.
The Law of Attraction is very exact and to answer your original question it is always about choosing to choose how we FEEL.
Carol
04/02/07 01:48 AM

===
Rev. Jackie Major writes:
Since you have replied repeatedly allthewhile not engaging with response to the actual inquiry, I wonder what you are agenda is, since you seem to need to invalidate me?
How very interesting.
Thank you for you input.
04/02/07 02:08 AM
===
Carol O writes:
Jackie it was not my intention to invalidate you at all.
I was responding to your subject line and when you stated that your intention was for a different discussion I shared my view.
If you feel invalidated or that I have sought to do that, the feeling is within you.
My answer that it is about choosing to choose what we FEEL is a sincere one as was my reflections on Oprah who you introduced in your opening post.
If your subject line drew in the conversation you did not want it is still the LoA in action.
Disagreement does not mean invalidation - it simply means a person has a different view.
Carol
04/02/07 02:16 AM
===

Rev. Jackie Major writes:
And you have made your point. Now, move on.
04/02/07 02:29 AM
===
~ Q ~ writes:
With all due respect, Rev (presumably Reverend), you've initiated a conversation here about what Oprah said, but you also stated in your initial post that you paraphrased what she said.
Before we can seriously discuss what Oprah said, or did not say, we need to know what she ACTUALLY said. When someone paraphrases another's statements they are relating what they heard, which is filtered through their own perspective, and is not neccesarily what the quoted person actually said.
Before going further in a discussion about what Oprah "said" on her show, we should be shown the actual (official) transcripts of that particular show.
Just my 2 cents, and in no way meant to offend.
~ Q ~
04/02/07 03:00 AM
===
Rev. Jackie Major writes:
You can visit Oprah's website if you need to obtain the transcripts of what she said in exact words. To simplify it for you, the intent of my thread was to identify how fear can serve as an interruptive force in seeing an opportunity to heal. Since you do not wish to recognize my paraphrasing-- you do not need to particpate in this thread since it would serve no purpose. In fact, if I choose, I can delete this thread if I felt that there were an attempt to disuade any meaningful discussion and serving only those who are posting purely for the pathetic attempt to call attention to themselves. I have the information that I need. If this thread persists to only go downhill, I will remove it and forward my complaint to the the forum administrator.
Over time, others will recognize who you and avoid engaging you, as they should.
04/02/07 03:11 AM
===

Tuesday, April 03, 2007 3:42:00 AM  
Blogger Calista McKnight said...

WOW!

Thank you for saving that thread.

I don't like the tone of that Jackie person one bit.

Kevin Hogan once referred to The Secret as the philosophy of Mein Kampf in that it's very exclusionary.

At first I thought Kevin was over the top, but now I see clearly what he meant. The fact the thread was deleted also speaks volumes about how 'they' are so intolerant of contrary and dissenting opinions, even among their own.

The thread also points out another major shortcoming of The Secret's version of the law of attraction; it's lack of compassion and empathy towards others.

You are absolutely right Connie. The PI forum is a great "study in the pervasiveness of New-Wage delusions"(as much as I dislike the joint, I was being a bit facetious :-)).

It would be very interesting to see the statistics on how many threads have been deleted over there. My guess is that there would be enough to start an entirely new forum.

Tuesday, April 03, 2007 8:04:00 AM  
Blogger Cosmic Connie said...

Yes, Calista, what really struck me about the "Rev." Jackie is that she was so intolerant of any deviation from what she wanted to discuss.

True, she is the one who began the thread, but starting a thread doesn't give one the right to rule the discussion with an iron fist. As one responder explained, RevJ's first post was so overwhelmingly about Oprah that the question she posed at the end was sort of lost. And although some of the responders chose to make it about Oprah, none of them actually "highjacked" the thread and took it off in a completely irrelevant direction. Yet when one poster respectfully explained the above to her, she snapped back.

There may very well be some personal conflicts going on among some of these posters too. However, to an outsider like me it looks like the RevJ seriously needs to learn to be a little more tolerant of the quirks of online discussion. It is the very nature of these discussions to take on a life of their own; that's what makes them engaging. RevJ could have been a lot more gentle in guiding the discussion back on topic, and she still would have gotten the point across.

I noticed that RevJ claims to do "energy healing"; I wonder if she bullies her clients when they don't "heal" exactly the way she'd planned.

Comparisons to Hitler and the Third Reich have become altogether too commonplace (heck, I've been compared to Hitler too), but I have to say that Kevin Hogan has a point, as does Anon, above. And I also like Chris Locke's term to describe a major characteristic of the New-Age/New-Wage community: sanctimonious narcissism. In this case, the emphasis is definitely on "sanctimonious." I've seen hardcore Baptists who are more tolerant than some of these New-Wagers. You either toe the line (*their* line, that is) or they'll beat you within an inch of your root chakra! :-)

Tuesday, April 03, 2007 9:58:00 AM  
Anonymous moi said...

" If this thread persists to only go downhill, I will remove it and forward my complaint to the the forum administrator.
Over time, others will recognize who you and avoid engaging you, as they should. "

I just read the above ending to the Rev Jackie thread and my heart skipped a few beats for that darned critical thinker who chimed in on the discussion. That's really positive of the Rev to threaten her with expulsion from the discussion for presenting a reasoned view point, and adding "as they should" nails the coffin of her/his (?) sanctimonous personality disorder. Actually, the rev's quip reminded me of some experiences I've had with fringe therapists/energy worker types. My opinion is that because many of these so called healers have very little training in research or theory in whatever it is they do, they are not equipped to deal with really serious issues of emotional healing and often break down when things don't go as expected. I had that happen once years ago with a gestalt therapist who got mad at me when i didn't want to act out my dream, and with some LPC who got heavily into energy work and began disregarding the ethical rules of his profession because he now considers himself above others who are more grounded in research (read: mind, i.e. mind is evil). This guy gets much of his technique from landmark, I think. In any case, my point is that one should be wary of anyone who claims to do "energy work", IMO. See what their credentials are before believing their shtick. If people who do this kind of work don't have a strong ethical sense and don't understand the concept of personal boundaries, they may just violate yours, as the Rev J did with that poor woman above.

Tuesday, April 03, 2007 11:50:00 AM  
Blogger Cosmic Connie said...

Moi, I felt exactly the same way you did when I read the dissenting posts and RevJ's responses.

BTW, I don't normally copy and paste entire forum discussions, but this one seemed to be in danger of being destroyed forever, and I felt it was important because it so beautifully reflected New-Age/New-Wage fundamentalism.

I am suspicious of ANYONE who says they do "energy work." Call me prejudiced, but when I hear "energy work" I automatically think the person is a flake unless proven otherwise. As you know from previous discussions, Moi, I can accept that there might be some merit to some of the "alternative" or non-Western methods. But most of these "energy workers" and "intuitive counselors" are little more than New-Wage dilettantes. And I've noticed that just about everyone on the PI discussion forum seems to be involved in some of this stuff.

Oh, and Landmark...wow, that's a whole other topic. Landmark is the latter-day incarnation of est, am I right? If you've been following the "Secret" discussion on Rick Ross's site, you've seen that it kind of veered off into a Landmark discussion for a spell. But no one threatened anybody with expulsion from the forum.

Tuesday, April 03, 2007 12:35:00 PM  
Anonymous moi said...

....What i meant to say regarding mind is evil, in case I didn't make it clear, is that i have found that that idea is prevalent among "energy" healers.

Tuesday, April 03, 2007 12:36:00 PM  
Blogger Cosmic Connie said...

Hey, Moi, it was clear to me, but thanks for clarifying anyway. Your observations about many "energy workers" are in sync with what I've seen myself.

Tuesday, April 03, 2007 12:40:00 PM  
Blogger RevRon's Rants said...

It's refreshing to see such clear evidence of true "critical thinking." Kudos to you, Connie, et al.

I especially liked anonymous' first comment. Hopefully, the same comments will never apply to the skeptics' side.

Thursday, April 05, 2007 10:02:00 AM  
Blogger Cosmic Connie said...

"I especially liked anonymous' first comment. Hopefully, the same comments will never apply to the skeptics' side."

Irony duly noted, Rev! :-)

Thursday, April 05, 2007 11:47:00 AM  

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