Whirled Musings

Across the Universe with Cosmic Connie, aka Connie L. Schmidt...or maybe just through the dung-filled streets and murky swamps of pop culture -- more specifically, the New-Age/New-Wage crowd, pop spirituality & religion, pop psychology, self(ish)-help, business babble, media silliness, & related (or occasionally unrelated) matters of consequence. Hope you're wearing boots. (By the way, the "Cosmic" bit in my moniker is IRONIC.)

Thursday, October 08, 2015

James Arthur Ray Death Lodge Sixth Anniversary: Never Forget


I always love October. I love the way it presents itself, more often than not, in such bright and perfect blue and gold -- yes, even down here where we don't have the stunning autumn colors that are seen further north. I love the way October always feels, even more than September does, like a beginning rather than the herald of any kind of ending. Granted, at least one group of Apocalyptomaniac "Christians" had been predicting that yesterday, October 7, would be The End. They were unfazed by the world's utter failure to end on September 27 with the lunar eclipse/blood moon/super moon,
as predicted by various idiots. One Chris McCann, head loony at the eBible Fellowship, an online affiliation headquartered in the Philly area, said that on October 7, the world will be "gone forever. Annihilated." According to McCann's interpretation, the world would be obliterated "with fire."

As we all know now, the world did not end. Here we are, well into October 8. And the world goes on, for most of us.

But as much as I love October, there is an undercurrent of sadness in these pristine fall days. Most of the hummingbirds are gone by now, though a scant few stragglers remain, but that's not the core of my sadness. It's more of a general melancholy, rather subtle, perhaps best expressed by Rilke's poem, "Autumn," which is no doubt even more lovely in the original German, though
the version in this blog post is the English translation that touches me the most (yes, despite my agnosticism).

This October day in particular is a sad one, for today is the sixth anniversary of the date that the world did end for
Kirby Brown and James Shore, two participants in New-Wage/selfish-help/McSpirituality guru James Arthur Ray's phony "sweat lodge" in Sedona, Arizona. Nine days later a third participant, Liz Neuman, passed away as well, without ever awakening from a coma.

And after that, the world was never the same for untold numbers of family members and friends of these three lovely people.

I knew none of them, though some of the family members are now my Facebook friends, but I think of them every year at this time. Mostly it is with sadness but also with anger, because the man whose recklnessness was responsible for these three deaths (four, if you count
Colleen Conaway's death at another Ray event in July 2009), served a prison sentence of less than two years for the Sedona deaths. (He served no time at all for Colleen's death, and wasn't even charged, much less tried or convicted, although my understanding is that there was a civil settlement of some kind, eventually.)

And these days, James Ray
is exploiting the Sedona tragedy and his time in prison for his own purposes, still parading as a success guru but with a new hook: he uses the pain and loss of others to portray himself as the hero who has walked through fire.

He may have walked through fire, figuratively speaking, but he did not die by fire, literally, as did James Shore, Kirby Brown and Liz Neuman.


He may have lost a lot, but he is still alive and capable of writing unmitigated crap such as, "In the process of losing everything...I actually found myself."

That theme -- redemption through profound loss -- is the one that Death Ray is flogging these days. And at this time, as previously reported here,
he is preparing to be the keynote speaker at the Global Information Network (GIN) Family Reunion at a Disney World resort in Florida on October 16-18. GIN, as you almost certainly know if you've been following this blog or others with similar subject matter, was the scammy brainchild of now-imprisoned serial scammer Kevin Trudeau (aka KT, aka Katie). The club is still being run by a group of Trudeau's close buddies and business partners (though if you don't mind my slipping in a little bit of gratuitous gossip, a GINsider recently whispered to me that GIN/AXS CEO Troy McClain actually can't stand Kevin. Shhh! Don't tell anyone.).

People lost hundreds of thousands of dollars through the GIN scam, money they will almost certainly never get back. Yet the con rolls on; even the "affiliate" (MLM) program has been renewed, and various wannabes (
like this joker) are still enthusiastically and aggressively pushing GIN as a "success club" -- and, in the case of the linked post above, they're also promoting James Ray as someone to look up to. And Trudeau? Still languishing in Camp Cupcake (his fake-fond nickname for FPC (Federal Prison Camp) in Montgomery, Alabama), awaiting the outcome of the appeal of his ten-year prison sentence, and pushing his own scams in order to raise money for his legal defense fund.

I should note that some disgruntled Trudeau customers will get their money back: after the U.S. government spent more than twelve years and many millions of dollars to pursue Trudeau for claims made on an infomercial for his diet book,
Judge Robert Gettleman finally approved refunds for buyers of the book. But there's a catch.

Consumers won’t be getting a full refund on the book. The government agency’s lawyers have said the refunds could arrive in multiple checks to readers, and it’s “reasonable” for consumers to expect $11 total from the first two checks they get. Some variables are at play, including the number of consumers the FTC can track down and the percentage who actually cash their checks. The checks will be valid only for 60 days.

The FTC said more than 820,000 people bought Trudeau’s book, which has a list price of $24.95.
But you GIN members who maxed out your credit cards, squandered your life savings or even lost your homes as a result of constantly being bombarded with attractive lies, Scientology-like manipulation, sales pitches, upsells and oversells... pffft. You're on your own. This case was never about y'all anyway. In fact it wasn't even consumer fraud re the diet book that actually landed Katie in prison. Technically it was criminal contempt; essentially, Katie pissed off the courts and the judges. Granted, it was all related to Katie's egregious consumer fraud. And Katie still has to answer for many of his lies (most notably, where he's hiding all of his money) when he gets out of prison. But meanwhile... he's still scamming and still has legions of fans.

Although it may seem that I've digressed a bit from my original topic on this post, I haven't, really, because both Katie and Death Ray are part of Scamworld, and in fact they have publicly endorsed and promoted each other numerous times over the past few years (see
here and here for instance).

One of the constant themes on this blog over the past few years has been that there are no neat and tidy endings in Scamworld. "The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on." Kevin Trudeau is in prison, but still scamming, and still looked on as a hero by many. James Arthur Ray was in prison, but out now, and still scamming, and still looked upon as a leader of some sort, at least by a few.

Meanwhile, many of the people Katie scammed are still picking up the pieces of their crumbled finances and lives. And as October inevitably gives way to November and December, there will still be empty places at the holiday tables of the families whose loved ones were killed by the arrogant recklessness of James Arthur Ray.

Regarding the latter, there are bright spots of joy with the sadness; in the years since Death Lodge,
beautiful babies have been born to some of the family members of those who were lost. Life goes on, and for some, October is truly a time of beginnings.

And maybe, just maybe, no one is ever truly lost. Rilke:

...And yet there's One whose gently-holding hands
this universal falling can't fall through.


Kirby Brown's family, trying to create something good from the awfulness wrought by James Ray, is still promoting their non-profit, Seek Safely, whose purpose is to educate people about how to safely participate in the self-help industry. I will note once again, as I always do when I mention this organization, that none of the industry giants invited to sign the Seek Safely Promise has signed. Here are the people who have signed -- and as I've also said before, I am sure they are good folks, but they are not the most prominent in the industry. Still, it's a worthy cause, and I applaud Kirby's family for their efforts.

And me? I'll continue to do my part to make sure that people never forget what happened six years ago today, October 8.

For insights into the arrogance that led up to Death Lodge, and the arrogance Ray has displayed since then,
see this post, written on the first anniversary of Sedona. Also read Connie Joy's book, Tragedy in Sedona. There's also a new public Facebook group, James Arthur Ray is a Felon.

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81 Comments:

Blogger Lance Shield said...

MY POST FROM A BLOG CONDEMNING JAMES ARTHUR RAY:

As for myself, if I say I take full responsibility for my actions at ANY EVENT that is what I will do. The primitive, inferior humans always want to blame their bad decisions and choices on others. They don't want to take responsibility for their actions. This is the way of the dishonorable, primitive, inferior human.

If the situation was reversed I feel certain James Arthur Ray would have honored his vow to take full responsibility for his actions at that event. This is the way of the true Spiritual Warrior. The phony always wants to blame his or her bad decisions on others.

The three who died were supposed to be seasoned, risk taking warriors. From experience, they should have knowm their limits and when they can take no more.

IT WAS THEIR RESPONSIBILITY TO GET OUT OF THE SWEAT LODGE

IF THEY FELT THEY COULD NOT HANDLE IT!!!

You know this to be true although you are determined to blame their bad decisions on James Arthur Ray.

What about MOST OF THE PEOPLE who suffered no ill effects from the sweat lodge event? Don't you think their opinions count for anything? OF COURSE NOT!!!

WHY???

THERE'S NO MONEY IN IT!!!!!

James Arthur Ray is a fool who thinks that true warriors do not defend themselves. That is why he only called two witnesses in his defense. I have openly said that ANY WARRIOR who refuses to defend himself DESERVES to get his ass kicked. OHHHHHH MYYYYYY!!!! James Arthur Ray most certainly didn't like that! He banned me so don't come here thinking that he and I are all "chummy, chummy".

ANY WARRIOR WHO DOES NOT TAKE RESPONSIBILITY

FOR HIS OR HER OWN ACTIONS

AND/OR REFUSES TO DEFEND HIM OR HERSELF

IS ACTUALLY AN IDIOT AND DESERVES

WHATEVER MAY COME AS A RESULT OF THAT IDIOCY!!!

You may not like the truth, but it is the truth nonetheless

*This post will most certainly never see the light of day except here. That blog is heavily moderated. Any truth that goes against their stand will most certainly be deleted. You see, the primitive, inferior humans only like truth when it make them feel all 'warm and fuzzy'. Truth that goes against any warped thing they may believe is unwelcome and unwanted.

I feel HELL is filled with many such people who reject truth in favor of their warped opinions.

Sunday, October 11, 2015 3:49:00 PM  
Blogger Cosmic Connie said...

Hi, Lance: Why don't you send a copy of this to all of the family members and close friends of the folks who died as a result of Ray's recklessness? And while you're at it, send copies to the numerous people who were injured or sickened (but not killed) over the years as a result of Ray's recklessness during his "extreme" events. I am sure that all of these people would appreciate being set straight by someone who knows the "truth" and who believes that he is impervious to any sort of prolonged or aggressive manipulation or coercion.

Oh, wait... this is satire, right?

Sunday, October 11, 2015 4:00:00 PM  
Blogger Lance Shield said...

GIVE ME A WAY TO CONTACT THEM AND I WILL SEND IT!!!!

PUT ME TO THE TEST!!!

TRUTH IS THE TRUTH WHETHER THEY, OR YOU,

LIKE IT OR NOT!!!

Sunday, October 11, 2015 4:09:00 PM  
Blogger Lance Shield said...

At any extreme sporting events, like marathons, people get injured. That's just the way it is. Responsible adults DO NOT push themselves father than they can handle, period!! FOOLS DO push themselves too hard. Those who do have NO ONE BUT THEMSELVES TO BLAME for whatever may happen as a result.

What? Are the people sponsoring a marathon supposed to go to jail if someone dies of a heart attack at the event?

THINK ABOUT IT!!!

Sunday, October 11, 2015 4:14:00 PM  
Blogger Lance Shield said...

Throw your proverbial stones at me and will not allow my responses to be seen, eh? Oh, what a great and noble "warrior" you are!!!

Sunday, October 11, 2015 4:17:00 PM  
Blogger Lance Shield said...

THAT WAS AN EXTREME EVENT and people were warned, beforehand, IN WRITING that death might result from some of the activities. THEY PROMISED IN WRITING to take full responsibility for their actions at that event

IF THEY WERE HONORABLE

THEY WOULD HAVE HONORED THEIR AGREEMENT, PERIOD!!!

For the dishonorable, out to make a buck, there are fancy lawyers for whom honor counts for nothing as long as they can win the case!

Sunday, October 11, 2015 4:24:00 PM  
Blogger Cosmic Connie said...

Actually I was being sarcastic when I suggested that you contact survivors and loved ones. There's no way I am going to enable you to inflict any more hurt on people who have already been deeply hurt by Ray. You're on your own there, Lance.

I have heard pretty much all of the arguments about "extreme sports" and "personal responsibility"... these have been used ever since Death Lodge happened, in attempts to defend Ray and shift the blame to victims.

People participating in extreme sports, however, are self-motivated for the most part, not subjected to intense manipulation by cult-like leaders. If someone sponsoring a marathon deliberately created unreasonably dangerous conditions for participants, and then bullied them into participating, they could very possibly be held liable for injuries or deaths. But that's not the way marathons work.

Regarding the Sedona horror: Several of the people DID try to get out of the sweat lodge but were bullied by Ray into staying. He also tried to bully people out of assisting those who were clearly in trouble. And they were all in such a weakened and vulnerable state that resistance was difficult if not impossible for them.

You're actually beginning to sound a lot like Ben Carson with his cavalier pronouncements about how the Oregon shooting victims, and the Jewish Holocaust victims, should have stood up to the shooter/oppressor. It's really easy to be an armchair hero, but I don't think many of us can accurately state how we would handle something unless we've been there.

Sunday, October 11, 2015 4:32:00 PM  
Blogger Cosmic Connie said...

"Throw your proverbial stones at me and will not allow my responses to be seen, eh? Oh, what a great and noble 'warrior' you are!!!"

Was that directed at me? I am not sure what you are insinuating but so far I've published every comment you've written. You're going to have to learn patience, Lance. Comments don't show up automatically on this blog. They don't show up till I approve them, which I can only do when I happen to be on my computer. I am on my computer right now but am also busy trying to get a for-pay writing assignment done, plus tend to other things as well -- so even though I'm at the computer that doesn't mean that every word you write is going to appear on this blog the moment it leaves your keyboard.

FYI, I've never claimed to be a great or noble anything, including a warrior. "Warrior" seems to be your fantasy, not mine.

Sunday, October 11, 2015 4:38:00 PM  
Blogger Lance Shield said...

I believe I remember reading that James Arthur Ray had a yearly excursion to Machu Picchu. He would do some extreme things with those who participated in that event. If someone had a heart attack and fell off the mountain James Arthur Ray would have gone to jail a lot sooner than he actually did.

YOU PEOPLE HAVE NO HONOR WORTH MENTIONING

IF YOU PROMISE ANYTHING IS DOESN'T MATTER.

YOU WILL BREAK YOUR PROMISE

IF IT IS CONVENIENT TO YOU

I would NEVER be dumb enough to put dishonorable idiots at risk at ANY EXTREME event. James Arthur Ray was a risk taker; as were the three who died.

IF YOU LIKE TO TAKE RISKS BE PREPARED

TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR (((YOUR))) ACTIONS

IF SOMETHING GOES WRONG!

Now, that's logical and reasonable

Fools think they can keep taking extreme risks and never suffer any adverse consequences as a result

Sunday, October 11, 2015 4:39:00 PM  
Blogger Lance Shield said...

I didn't see my responses and figured you would not release them. Apparently, I was wrong. I don't know if people who are not logged in can see my responses. I'm impressed that you actually allowed them to be seen.

TELL US, COSMIC CONNIE:

IF YOU PROMISED TO TAKE FULL RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR ACTIONS

AT (((ANY EVENT))) WOULD YOU HONOR YOUR AGREEMENT?

WOULD YOU NEED TO SIGN A WAIVER TO KEEP YOUR PROMISE?

Sunday, October 11, 2015 4:44:00 PM  
Blogger Cosmic Connie said...

As I said above, it's easy to be an armchair hero.

Sunday, October 11, 2015 4:44:00 PM  
Blogger Cosmic Connie said...

Your question to me is moot because I personally would never participate in any event as remotely risky or extreme as those that Ray hosted. But that's just me. I'm a wimp when it comes to physical stuff and have always owned up to that.

Knowing what I know now, I certainly would not participate in any event that required signing a waiver like the ones Ray had his participants sign. There are too many variables and extenuating circumstances when it comes to manipulation and coercion, making the concept of "full responsibility" a murky one -- both legally and morally.

Sunday, October 11, 2015 4:51:00 PM  
Blogger Lance Shield said...

IN OTHER WORDS:

YOU DO NOT WANT TO ANSWER MY QUESTION

BECAUSE IT WOULD INCRIMINATE THE FAMILIES

OF THE THREE WHO DIED

Look, I don't blame them for wanting to make money off this situation. However, I would not want my mother to do so if I went to that event and pushed myself too hard. I already asked her if she would sue Mr Ray or honor my written promise to take full responsibility for my actions at that event. She said she would honor my promise. You see, my mother is HONORABLE!! This is something you dishonorable just can't comprehend

Sunday, October 11, 2015 4:52:00 PM  
Blogger Lance Shield said...

COSMIC CONNIE WROTE:

Knowing what I know now, I certainly would not participate in any event that required signing a waiver like the ones Ray had his participants sign. There are too many variables and extenuating circumstances when it comes to manipulation and coercion, making the concept of "full responsibility" a murky one -- both legally and morally.

MY RESPONSE:

In other words, you would consider it STUPID to attend such a risky event, eh? Hey, I'm a seasoned Bodybuilding, Martial Arts TRUE WARRIOR and I would not have attended that event even if all expenses were paid!

HOWEVER, if I did attend and felt ANY EVENT was too extreme for me I would simply not participate. I've read that a number of people simply did not participate in the sweat lodge event. That was THEIR CHOICE and not Mr Ray's, GET IT??? Probably not

Sunday, October 11, 2015 4:58:00 PM  
Blogger Cosmic Connie said...

I did answer your question about what *I* would do (or not do). I cannot and do not pretend to speak for the people who actually participated in Ray's events.

But I can say this: if you think it was all about people just wanting to make money off of tragedy of losing their loved ones, you're not honorable but reprehensible.

And there is no reason to for me to fear incriminating the families of the people who died, because they are not the criminals or wrongdoers. James Arthur Ray is.

Sunday, October 11, 2015 4:58:00 PM  
Blogger Lance Shield said...

I SAY THE FAMILIES DISHONORED THE DEATH OF THOSE THREE WARRIORS

THE FINAL PROMISE ANY WARRIOR MAKES MUST BE HONORED

IT IS SACRED!!!

Of course, this is just too advanced for the dishonorable to understand. It makes no sense to the dishonorable. Breaking promises to make money makes perfect sense to the dishonorable. That's just the way it is!

Sunday, October 11, 2015 5:05:00 PM  
Blogger Lance Shield said...

HOW ABOUT BEING HONEST AND ANSWERING THIS:

SHOULD THE CREATORS OF A MARATHON EVENT

BE HELD RESPONSIBLE IF SOMEONE DIES

AS A RESULT OF ATTENDING AND PARTICIPATING IN THE EVENT?

My bet is you will not answer honestly and try to change the subject. Such are the ways of the dishonorable

Sunday, October 11, 2015 5:10:00 PM  
Blogger Cosmic Connie said...

I have already answered your marathon question by stating my opinion about the way marathons are structured versus the way cult-like events like Ray's Spiritual Warrior event are structured.

If it makes you feel good to call me and anyone else with an iota of compassion for victims "dishonorable," knock yourself out. It doesn't hurt me. I do not feel particularly compelled to defend my own honor. Like playing warrior, honorable/dishonorable seems to be your fetish, not mine.

Sunday, October 11, 2015 5:16:00 PM  
Blogger Lance Shield said...

THERE IS NO INDICATION that the three who died were brainwashed cult members. EVERYTHING their relatives had to say about them was glowingly fantastic!!! They were the very best among humanity!!

THIS WAS THEIR FAMILIES' BIG MISTAKE!!

They should have said those three were hopelessly brainwashed cult members who could not be trusted to make important decisions for themselves.

THAT'S WHAT THEY SHOULD HAVE SAID!!!

TOO LATE NOW!!!

Sunday, October 11, 2015 5:25:00 PM  
Blogger Cosmic Connie said...

For those who are interested in exploring the question of whether extreme-event organizers should be held liable for deaths or injuries, there's plenty of ongoing debate. A casual search revealed this 2013 article:
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bal-with-rise-of-extreme-races-fun-comes-with-serious-risk-20130524-htmlstory.html

A related question is whether extreme events should be more regulated. I explored that question at length (in regard to the self-help industry specifically) five and a half years ago.
http://cosmicconnie.blogspot.com/2010/03/self-help-regulation-necessary.html

In general I oppose more regulations. I also acknowledge that sometimes people overestimate their own capacity and push themselves too far. But again, with Ray there was clearly manipulation and bullying involved, and people were pretty much coerced into ignoring the warning signs from their own bodies.

Sunday, October 11, 2015 5:29:00 PM  
Blogger Cosmic Connie said...

What their families said was that they were good people who were worn down by Ray's manipulation and harmed by his reckless disregard for their well being. Both history and scientific studies have shown that this can happen to even the best, smartest, and strongest people, given the right (or wrong) circumstances.

I am getting ready to log off of my computer and go tend to my life, so if you want to continue arguing you are welcome to do so but your arguments may not be published until some time tomorrow.

Thank you for your participation. Enjoy the rest of your Sunday.

Sunday, October 11, 2015 5:35:00 PM  
Blogger Lance Shield said...

YOU ARE A LIAR!!!

I have the recorded testimonies of family member who spoke of those three who died. They NEVER SAID they were hopelessly brainwashed cult members. They were said to be the very best of people!!!

I donated to the site devoted to Kirby Brown. DID YOU?

Everything said about her, on that site, was glowing and fantastic!!

I said that I wanted my donation to go to the foundation so that they could help people who are dumber than dogs because dogs would not be dumb enough to stay in a sweat lodge if they felt it was too hot.

Oh, they didn't like that

However, they did not refund my donation

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Sunday, October 11, 2015 6:20:00 PM  
Blogger RevRon's Rants said...

Connie, you're wasting your time and bandwidth arguing with this "Lance Shield," whoever he really is. He comes across, not as some "honorable warrior," but as a textbook juvenile sociopath. Even his screen name, as you noted, suggests a strong fantasy wherein he tries to pass himself off as some kind of comic book hero. The best response is probably just to ignore him and trust that his parents will eventually restrict his playtime on their computer. :-)

Sunday, October 11, 2015 10:44:00 PM  
Blogger Yakaru said...

Your patience is astounding, Connie.

All I will note is that Lance said more in defense of James Ray in the very first sentence of his very first comment than James Ray himself said at his entire trial.

Ok, I will add one more thing -- quite apart from the obvious manipulation that Ray practiced throughout the event, there were two things that especially got him convicted: that he lied to participants that they would be "looked after" if they pass out (which was what he was clearly planning for); and that he was repeated told that people needed help or had stopped breathing.

Lance should be sending his CAPS diatribes to the judge to convince him, and maybe also to Ray's lawyers -- who initially said in the media that "had Mr Ray heard any cries of distress he would have stopped the event". (For heavens sake, even by the standards of his lawyers Ray was guilty as charged.)

Monday, October 12, 2015 10:50:00 AM  
Blogger Cosmic Connie said...

Lance (Sunday, October 11, 2015 6:20:00 PM): I have lied about nothing. Clearly you do not understand basic concepts of human vulnerability to manipulation and coercion. (Either that, or you are just deliberately making stupid arguments because you're bored and you want to see how far I will let this stupid conversation continue.) Any human being, no matter how good and strong and smart and educated she or he may be, can be harmed by skilled manipulators, under the right circumstances. There is no contradiction between describing someone in glowing terms as being "the very best of people" and acknowledging that they are human and vulnerable.

I have not yet donated money to the Brown family foundation, but I have "donated" plenty of time and blog space promoting their work over the past few years. Do you honestly think that sending money to the foundation and accompanying it with crass insults puts you on some sort of moral/spiritual/intellectual high ground? It doesn't; it only makes you look stupider, and far less honorable than you would like to imagine.

Monday, October 12, 2015 2:04:00 PM  
Blogger Cosmic Connie said...

Ron, you are probably right, but I've always erred on the side of letting fools rant. No doubt I am wasting time and bandwidth -- but frankly, I am more concerned about the loved ones of Ray's victims reading this and being deeply offended. On the other hand, I rather suspect that they have heard all of this before and that they chalk it up to ignorance, immaturity, sociopathy or just plain stupidity.

Monday, October 12, 2015 2:09:00 PM  
Blogger Cosmic Connie said...

Yakaru, you made some very good points. Thank you for that.

Another small point that I failed to mention during my exchange with "Lance" yesterday (regarding his assertion that the families only went after Ray because of the money) was that it was the state of Arizona that criminally prosecuted James Ray for the deaths, not the families. Some of the families did file separate civil lawsuits, and there were settlements that in no way could even begin to make up for the loss of their loved ones. I have absolutely no doubt that they would rather have Kirby, James S and Liz back rather than any amount of money. In any case the trial itself was not about any families trying to get money. It was about the state of Arizona prosecuting a man for crimes committed in that state.

Monday, October 12, 2015 2:16:00 PM  
Blogger Lance Shield said...

THE BOTTOM LINE:

You either keep your promises or you break them. If you break your promises you are TRASH HUMAN SCUM, PERIOD!!

If I promise to take full responsibility for ANY ACTIVITY at ANY EVENT I don't need to sign anything to keep that promise. Why?

BECAUSE I AM HONORABLE!!!

This is an enigma to the dishonorable. They just can't understand and see it as sociopath behavior. That is to be expected from the dishonorable. To them being honorable is to be a sociopath.

Monday, October 12, 2015 5:02:00 PM  
Blogger Lance Shield said...

LET ME MAKE IT PERFECTLY CLEAR:

I am convinced the Universe came down on Mr Ray for matters beyond human comprehension. Any supposed "warrior" who feels to be a true "warrior" means you do not defend yourself is an idiotic moron, period!!!

I have never really "followed" Mr Ray

What I eventually learned from this matter is that when the Spirit turns against you there is no escape. That is scary stuff!!! I want nothing to do with James Arthur Ray. However, if Mr Ray offered a million-dollars to speak with him for five-minutes. Heck, I might consider it!

Monday, October 12, 2015 5:09:00 PM  
Blogger Lance Shield said...

COSMIC CONNIE WROTE:

Do you honestly think that sending money to the foundation and accompanying it with crass insults puts you on some sort of moral/spiritual/intellectual high ground?

MY RESPONSE: Well, if they refunded my money as a matter of principle I would now have a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT VIEW of them. Since they OBVIOUSLY did not like the reason I donated and REFUSED TO REFUND MY MONEY because of the principle of the matter, it's clear enough for anyone to see...

THEY WERE OUT FOR THE MONEY!!!!

It was more than test enough, lady!!!

To be against Mr Ray because they say he was out for the money when THEY THEMSELVES were out for every penny they could get from Mr Ray REEKS of two-faced, dishonorable dishonesty!!



Monday, October 12, 2015 5:16:00 PM  
Blogger Lance Shield said...

THAT TRIAL WAS A SET UP!!!

I BELIEVE THE NATIVE AMERICAN WOMAN poisoned the hot rocks water during the last rounds of the sweat lodge event. I believe Mr Ray was set up because he had angered very high and prominent people of the New World Order agenda.

I believe they paid off that Native American woman to poison the last round waters with an organophosphate compound all traces of which would completely disappear after a short time. That is my CURRENT view, but I could be wrong.

HOW ABOUT YOU? COULD (((YOU))) BE WRONG???

Monday, October 12, 2015 5:21:00 PM  
Blogger Cosmic Connie said...

Ooooo-kay. Bringing the New World Order and "the Universe" into the discussion like some New-Age ninny and conspiracy nutter has really lowered the bar. You are beginning to sound more and more like a caricature, and I fear you have surrendered any right you may have had to be taken even semi-seriously in this discussion.

Couple of points, though:
1. The "organophosphate" defense was unsuccessfully used at the trial. Here's more about that from the excellent coverage of the trial on the Celestial Reflections blog:
http://celestial-reflections.blogspot.com/2011/05/james-arthur-ray-sweat-lodge-trial-day_11.html
2. YES, the SeekSafely foundation IS "out for the money" in the sense that they ask for donations to further their education and outreach efforts. That doesn't mean that they are rolling in dough. More importantly it is clear that they are not trying to get money from Ray himself -- and clearly they are not trying to get rich from this educational organization.

Tuesday, October 13, 2015 12:16:00 PM  
Blogger RevRon's Rants said...

"I AM HONORABLE!!!"
"I'm a seasoned Bodybuilding, Martial Arts TRUE WARRIOR..."

Iron Lady Margaret Thatcher famously said, "If you have to tell people you're a lady, you probably aren't." There is great wisdom in those words, which you would do well to apply, "Lance." Ask a grownup to explain it to you.

Your amusing attempt to shift blame to anyone but Ray - despite the fact that there is absolutely no evidence to even suggest the possibility of, much less establish the truth of such an act - pretty clearly establishes your agenda in this discussion. As does your choice of a comic book hero with unsubtle phallic emphasis as your screen name. Thanks for the entertainment; it makes me miss the days when my children were little.

Tuesday, October 13, 2015 12:28:00 PM  
Blogger Cosmic Connie said...

Well said, Ron.

Tuesday, October 13, 2015 12:58:00 PM  
Blogger Lance Shield said...

JAMES ARTHUR RAY was responsible for HIS OWN ACTIONS just as the three seasoned RISK TAKERS were responsible for THERE OWN ACTIONS!!!

Someone who was right next to Kirby shouted out that Kirby Brown was fine when one woman was standing up and yelling there was something wrong with Kirby.

ALL EVIDENCE PRESENTED POINTS THE PROVERBIAL FINGER TO JAMES SHORE as the person who was right next to Kirby Brown at the time. NONE OF YOU CARE to find out if the person who yelled Kirby was fine was actually James Shore. I wrote Mr Ray's attorneys MANY TIMES, on the Internet, I told them to find out who yelled that Kirby was fine because James Shore made himself Kirby's protector around the time they both died.

IF JAMES SHORE YELLED OUT KIRBY BROWN WAS FINE HE IS DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR KIRBY BROWN'S DEATH, NOT MR RAY!!!

OH, IF IT COULD BE PROVEN IT WAS MR RAY WHO YELLED OUT THAT KIRBY WAS FINE YOU WOULD WANT TO KNOW ALRIGHT!!

SINCE IT WAS PROBABLY JAMES SHORE WHO YELLED KIRBY WAS FINE YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW AT ALL, RIGHT?

YOU ARE DISHONORABLE SCUM FOR WHOM MAKING PROMISES MEANS NOTHING!!!

((( SPIT!!! )))

Tuesday, October 13, 2015 2:33:00 PM  
Blogger Cosmic Connie said...

Your arguments are now beyond stupid.

James Shore was impaired -- near death himself -- and in no condition to make an accurate evaluation of Kirby's condition. He carried one woman out of the sweat lodge and then went back to try to save Kirby.

James Ray, on the other hand, had a seat right next to the sweat lodge entrance and the advantage of adequate ventilation. He was impaired only by his own arrogance and ego.

James Arthur Ray is morally and legally responsible for the deaths of James Shore, Kirby Brown, and Liz Neuman, as well as the injuries of numerous others. End of story.

Feel free to go on ranting and foaming and virtually spitting, though.

Tuesday, October 13, 2015 3:09:00 PM  
Blogger Cosmic Connie said...

BTW, "Lance," I've noticed two things about your blog post regarding this conversation
(link: http://manifestingsuccessdestiny.blogspot.com/2015/10/true-warrior.html)...

1. You are providing a blow-by-blow of YOUR comments on this thread on my blog, but you are not copying and pasting the remarks of the other participants, nor are you copying and pasting my remarks in full.
2. You do not seem to allow comments on your blog.

OMT: Are you the same Lance Shield who has a Brony (My Little Pony) blog?
http://lanceshield-mlp.blogspot.com/

Tuesday, October 13, 2015 3:23:00 PM  
Blogger Lance Shield said...

FIND OUT WHO YELLED OUT KIRBY WAS FINE WHEN SHE WAS ACTUALLY DYING!!

IT WAS JAMES SHORE!!!

JAMES SHORE WAS DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR KIRBY BROWN'S DEATH

SHORE WAS RIGHT NEXT TO KIRBY AT THE TIME!!

HE MADE HIMSELF KIRBY'S PROTECTOR AND WAS WHISPERING THINGS INTO HER EAR!!!

IF HE WAS INCAPACITATED SOMEONE WOULD HAVE YELLED THAT JAMES SHORE HAD PASSED OUT!!


YOU RUN YOUR BLOG AS YOU SEE FIT

I RUN MINE AS I SEE FIT!!


The most interesting thing about you is obviously this matter regarding the sweat lodge event. My blog has much more interesting things than your blog. It's a fact!! This sweat lodge matter is just a passing thing with me. For you it's the most interesting thing you have!!

That post I created saving my responses is long enough. I don't intend to devote any more posts to this sweat lodge matter.

As I stated, I would not have gone to that sweat lodge event even if it it was free. However, if I went and felt the sweat lodge was too hot I would get out AND STAY OUT!!! That would be MY RESPONSIBILITY, not Mr Ray's

There is NO INDICATION that the three who died were so weak-minded that they couldn't think for themselves. They were SEASONED RISK TAKERS who took one risk too many, That was THEIR RESPONSIBILITY, not Mr Rays'

Tuesday, October 13, 2015 3:42:00 PM  
Blogger Lance Shield said...

THE BOTTOM LINE AGAIN:

IF I MAKE A PROMISE TO TAKE FULL RESPONSIBILITY FOR MY ACTIONS AT ANY EVENT

THAT IS WHAT I DO BECAUSE I AM HONORABLE

I DO NOT HAVE TO SIGN ANY WAIVER

BECAUSE I AM HONORABLE

This is something you just can't understand because you are NOT HONORABLE!!

Tuesday, October 13, 2015 3:52:00 PM  
Blogger Lance Shield said...

COSMIC CONNIE WROTE:

James Shore was impaired -- near death himself -- and in no condition to make an accurate evaluation of Kirby's condition. He carried one woman out of the sweat lodge and then went back to try to save Kirby.

MY RESPONSE:

Oh, so now you are trying to make people believe that James Shore went back into the sweat lodge to try to save Kirby Brown then passed out and died in the process with no one shouting out that there was something wrong with James Shore??

THAT'S A LIE!!!!

I HAVE THE TESTIMONY RECORDED!!!!!!

YOU CAN'T TRICK ME AS EASILY AS YOU TRICK OTHERS, YOU LIAR!!!

FIND OUT WHO YELLED THAT KIRBY WAS FINE WHEN SHE WAS ACTUALLY DYING

YOU DON'T KNOW WHO DID IT

I SAY ALL EVIDENCE POINTS TO JAMES SHORE

UNTIL YOU CLEAR THIS MATTER UP YOU WILL NEVER KNOW FOR CERTAIN

IN YOUR HEARTS YOU KNOW I AM RIGHT!!!

JAMES SHORE WAS DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR KIRBY BROWN'S DEATH



Tuesday, October 13, 2015 3:59:00 PM  
Blogger RevRon's Rants said...

"Limp Shield" is obviously nothing but a troll and a coward, much like s few others we've seen over the last few years. No "honorable" person - and certainly no "warrior" - would attack and refuse to allow an opponent to defend. It's good that he "accepts responsibility for his own behavior." It defines him quite well, just as his penchant for HOLLERING establishes his awareness that his "arguments" are weak and devoid of substance. :-)

Tuesday, October 13, 2015 4:10:00 PM  
Blogger Lance Shield said...

HERE IS THE BIG PROBLEM FOR WHICH MR RAY IS COMPLETELY RESPONSIBLE:

It's was James Arthur Ray's event

It was James Arthur Ray who decided they didn't need paramedic personnel on duty for the TWO-HOURS of the sweat lodge event.

ONLY TWO-HOURS, FOR CHRIST'S SAKE!!!!

Well, Mr Ray didn't think that was necessary

BIG MISTAKE THAT ENDED UP SENDING HIM TO JAIL!!

Now, I'm sure we can agree on that, correct?

Tuesday, October 13, 2015 5:15:00 PM  
Blogger Lance Shield said...

WHAT WOULD IT HAVE COST, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!

WHAT WOULD IT HAVE COST TO HAVE PARAMEDICS ON DUTY

FOR THE TWO-HOURS OF THE SWEAT LODGE EVENT?!!!


THAT'S ALL IT WOULD HAVE TAKEN

JAMES ARTHUR RAY WAS FULLY RESPONSIBLE

FOR NOT HAVING THEM ON DUTY THOSE TWO-HOURS

FOR THIS HE ENDED UP GOING TO JAIL!!

((( FOOL!!! )))

I don't consider myself some great spiritual leader, but I would see the value of having paramedics on duty for those two-hours. Especially with a recent New York Times bestseller to fall back on.

DUMB, DUMB, DUMB, DUMB...

I can't write enough "dumb" to properly describe just how dumb it was not to hire them!!!

Tuesday, October 13, 2015 5:31:00 PM  
Blogger Lance Shield said...

THERE IS A CORE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOU AND I, COSMIC CONNIE

((( YOU WANT DONATIONS )))

((( I DON'T!! )))

That completely shapes the difference in the way we post and the types of posts we share

YOU'RE A BEGGAR

I AM NOT!!

Of course, you will support ANY STAND that will lead to donations. Well, you ain't gettin d*ck from me, birch*!!!

*That's a duck and a tree

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!

Tuesday, October 13, 2015 5:38:00 PM  
Blogger Lance Shield said...

Okay, let's get real here. SOMEONE should point blank ask James Arthur Ray:

'Suppose the situation was reversed and you signed a waiver promising to take full responsibility for your actions at the "warrior" event. Would you keep your promise or would you break it if slick lawyers offered you a way to make money by doing so?'

SOMEONE SHOULD OPENLY ASK JAMES ARTHUR RAY THIS QUESTION!!!

My guess is that Mr Ray would openly say that he is an honorable person and would keep his promise no matter how much money was offered him to break it.

THAT'S WHAT BEING HONORABLE IS ALL ABOUT!!!!!

Of course, this is BEYOND the comprehension of you dishonorable people who will break your promises IF THE PRICE IS RIGHT!! You'd break a promise to your own mothers, if the price was right!!!!

Tuesday, October 13, 2015 6:46:00 PM  
Blogger Lance Shield said...

I SEE THE OVERALL PROBLEM BETWEEN US

YOU are of the school of thought that I must care for people who don't care about me to be truly "righteous". Obviously, you all feel that Mr Ray should be held responsible for the death of those three "SUPPOSED WARRIORS*"

*PEOPLE WHO REFUSE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS ARE NOT WARRIORS!!!

Instead you felt Mr Ray should be held responsible for their deaths as though they were mentally retarded five-year-old children. You don't want them to be treated like responsible adults who made THEIR OWN CHOICES. You want those three to be treated as though they were irresponsible children with mental impairment.

THAT'S THE CORE OF IT!!!

IF THEY WERE TRUE WARRIORS THEY WOULD HAVE KEPT THEIR PROMISES

AND TAKEN FULL RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR ACTIONS, PERIOD!!

That's what true warriors do, period!! You don't want to take responsibility for your own actions then you are NO TRUE WARRIOR!!!

Tuesday, October 13, 2015 7:53:00 PM  
Blogger Lance Shield said...

Okay, let's look at this matter from a different perspective. You and I are at that very same sweat lodge event. We are sitting together talking about how friggin hot that sweat lodge is and that we are hesitant to go in for another round.

James Shore, Kirby Brown and Liz Neuman come up to us encouraging us to go back into the sweat lodge. YOU AND I both feel as though we had had enough. Would you go back in because Kirby Brown, OR ANYONE ELSE, encouraged you to do so, or would you listen to your body and not go back into the sweat lodge?

Suppose YOU are so encouraged by them that you go back into the sweat lodge and you get injured.

WHO IS TO BLAME FOR THAT?

JAMES ARTHUR RAY OR YOU???

Who is to blame that I chose not to go back into the sweat lodge? James Arthur Ray or ME???

Can you see the logic here?

Probably not.

IF YOU FEEL IT IS TOO HOT DON'T GO BACK IN, YOU IDIOT!!!

NO MATTER WHO SAYS WHAT!!!

You people are trying to treat Mr Ray as though he forced those people to participate!!!

You treat him as though he forced those people to participate and three of them died!!

Tuesday, October 13, 2015 8:03:00 PM  
Blogger Lance Shield said...

Again I say, all Mr Ray would had have to have done was hire an emergency medical unit to be there for the two-hours of the sweat lodge event and...

HE WOULD NOT HAVE HAD TO GO TO JAIL!!!

Mr Ray decided he didn't need such an emergency unit and, AS A RESULT, was convicted and went to jail.

THAT IS THE CORE OF IT AND YOU KNOW IT!!!

YES, MR RAY IS FULLY RESPONSIBLE FOR NOT HIRING THE EMERGENCY MEDICAL UNIT

YES, MR RAY THOUGHT HE KNEW BETTER AND, I STRONGLY DOUBT, IF I WAS THERE ANYTHING I WOULD HAVE SAID WOULD HAVE CONVINCED HIM OTHERWISE

FOR THIS, MR RAY IS FULLY GUILTY!!!

HE WAS AN IDIOT AND PAID THE PRICE FOR BEING AN OVERLY-CONFIDENT, MORONIC, JACKASS IDIOT!!

If you are honest we can most certainly agree on this, right?

Wednesday, October 14, 2015 4:07:00 AM  
Blogger RevRon's Rants said...

Limpy, I've lived in the company of warriors. Unlike people like yourself who fantasize about being a warrior, true warriors attack only when necessary. Not screaming, never bragging, merely efficient. Ray is not a warrior by any stretch of the imagination. He is an opportunist and a coward; traits you obviously admire and strive to emulate.

You don't know Connie well enough to justify the derision you sling at her. It is obviously your feeble method of attempting to eliminate something you perceive as a threat, another behavior modeled after your sociopathic hero.

You claim to be a martial artist. Perhaps you watched a few too many action movies, but I suspect that is the extent of your "training," because in the dojo, the victor is humble and efficient, while the angry braggart is typically defeated before ever stepping onto the mat. Just something to think about...

Wednesday, October 14, 2015 8:46:00 AM  
Blogger Lance Shield said...

To be perfectly honest, this whole James Arthur Ray incidence scared the living crap out of me. I felt God was showing me what can happen if the Spirit of the Universe turns against you.

I HAD TO BELIEVE that no such thing would EVER happen to me without first being given AT LEAST THREE clear warnings from the Universe. I only knew of one such warning and it happened the year before AT THE VERY SAME SWEAT LODGE EVENT and at Angel Valley, I believe. A woman came out of the sweat lodge and, for a while, was gibbering nonsense. She was a friggin proverbial 'basket case'!

The incident would have been enough warning for me to hire emergency personnel for the two-hours of the sweat lodge event FROM THAT TIME ONWARD!!! That Mr Ray ignored such a warning from the Spirit reeks of over-confidence. He was obviously too sure of himself and no one could get through to him!

BIG MISTAKE!!!!!

He lost most everything and went to jail as a result.

I think he's learned his lesson

I certainly hope so!

Wednesday, October 14, 2015 12:26:00 PM  
Blogger Lance Shield said...

TO REV RON:

IF YOUR PROMISE MEANS NOTHING IF YOU CAN MAKE MONEY BY BREAKING IT

((( YOU ARE HUMAN SCUM, PERIOD!! )))

IF YOU WENT TO THE SWEAT LODGE EVENT PROMISING TO TAKE FULL RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR ACTIONS

AND BROKE YOUR PROMISE TO MAKE MONEY, THROUGH SLICK LAWYERS,

YOU WOULD BE DISHONORABLE HUMAN SCUM AND NO TRUE WARRIOR!!!

LIKE IT OR NOT, THAT'S THE BOTTOM LINE, O GREAT REV!

Wednesday, October 14, 2015 2:40:00 PM  
Blogger Cosmic Connie said...

Jeez, take your keyboard off cap-lock, "Lance."

Wednesday, October 14, 2015 3:03:00 PM  
Blogger Cosmic Connie said...

Just a few random points, since I'm busy trying to meet deadlines for paying work (remember, this is my hobby, not my livelihood)...

1. The Death Lodge incident didn't scare me so much as wake me up. It drove home the point that some of my "blogging colleagues" and fellow self-help industry critics had been trying to make all along: that not all of this New-Wage/selfish-help/McSpirituality stuff I've been blogging about since 2006 (and making fun of for at least ten years before that) is snarkworthy but relatively benign fun. Sometimes it is serious. Sometimes people get hurt, and sometimes people get killed. Arguably it was Death Lodge that took this blog on a new and more serious turn, where before it had mostly been a "humor blog." Or "humor blog" had been my intention, anyway. And I did used to be a lot funnier, back in the day.
2. I don't need the concepts of God or the Spirit of the Universe to tell me that what happened in Sedona was horrible and that it was the result of one man's profound arrogance. If God and the Spirit of the Universe work for you, knock yourself out.
3. I do agree with you, "Lance," that Ray was wrong for not taking much greater precautions than he did, medically and otherwise. I wouldn't call it stupid or moronic so much as arrogant. The sweat lodge was supposed to be all about cheating or "conquering" Death -- looking it in the face and laughing at it. Ray deliberately made the sweat lodge as dangerous as possible and told his participants, repeatedly, to ignore the warning signs from their bodies.
4. There were numerous problems with James Ray's previous sweat lodges -- not just one incident. Problems emerged as early as 2005, and in 2007 and 2008 there were injuries. Ray did NOTHING to address the problems; he simply made the 2009 sweat lodge even hotter and more dangerous.
5. I have no reason to believe that Ray has really changed his spots. Yes, being in jail for a couple of years was a setback, but he is fully exploiting that, and some who have known him well for years say they see no signs of a true change of heart. He may not be running sweat lodges right now, but he is still manipulating and scamming.

Wednesday, October 14, 2015 3:05:00 PM  
Blogger Cosmic Connie said...

Regarding earlier points you made and questions you asked, “Lance”...
1. I cannot say what I would do in a dire situation like the sweat lodge. Realistically, since I have no heat tolerance I wouldn’t have gone into it at all, and since I don’t like New-Wage hucksters I wouldn’t have ever followed Ray in the first place. I saw him for what he was when I saw he was part of “The Secret,” which is an entire infomercial of sleazy hucksters. But playing the game of “just suppose…” I would like to believe that I would know when to get out of that sweat lodge had I gone in. However, I also know that until one is in a situation, one never REALLY knows how one will react. Really. I mean, I'd like to believe that during some horror such as a mass shooting I would be calm and heroic and would be trying to help shield others from the gunman, but more than likely I would be cowering under a desk wetting my pants or playing dead.
2. Your lecturing me about not being a true warrior is a bit like lecturing me for not being a true martial artist or a devout Muslim or a competent equestrian or a champion bowler. I've never claimed to be or pretended to be or aspired to be any of those things, including and especially "warrior." Similarly, your concept of "honor" seems to me so skewed, so cartoonishly black-and-white, that when you accuse me of being dishonorable it is all but meaningless to me.
3. That said, there's nothing dishonorable about soliciting donations for a hobby blog that I've spent hundreds of hours over the past nine years writing (and making silly Photoshops to illustrate). Donations are few and far between; it's no big deal either way. It's a hobby (an obsessive one sometimes, but just a hobby. Maybe like your My Little Pony fixation.). I'm not standing on street corners begging for money, nor am I constantly in people's faces trying to coerce them into giving me money. There's a donation button on the Web version of the blog (it's apparently not on the mobile version). People can use it or not. The vast majority do not.
4. Perhaps James Arthur Ray's death lodge is the only thing that you find interesting on my blog, but I've written about many, many other things and people within the realm of the blog topic description that appears at the top of the page. I don't normally natter on about the meaning of life, the universe, and everything because that's not within the normal scope of this Whirled, but you're free to explore those topics in your own way on your blog.

Wednesday, October 14, 2015 3:15:00 PM  
Blogger Lance Shield said...

So, you are absolutely certain Mr Ray is just a scam artist, eh?

Nothing he has shared has any real value, eh?

You are absolutely certain he was lying in this recent interview, right?

https://youtu.be/3FiYOCtJGbo

GET REAL, CONNIE!!!

That is what you WANT to believe and absolutely REFUSE to believe otherwise no matter how much evidence is presented to the contrary

That's the way it is with you Godless atheists. You blindly feel you have it all figured out. In fact you are a bunch of blind faith in science idiots who pompously feel you know everything that can possibly be known!!

Wednesday, October 14, 2015 3:20:00 PM  
Blogger Lance Shield said...

Alright Con-artist-nee

Time for you to walk your talk

No one against The Secret has been able to pass this test

Let's see if you can succeed where all others have failed:

Here is a short summary of The Secret:

https://youtu.be/VIePKRqgGkY

List the three main things about this philosophy, from the video, that are obviously bogus

A)

B)

C)

Every skeptic I have challenged in this manner was not even able to get to "A". I predict you will not either because you are a SCAM ARTIST. You pass judgement against things when you DON'T KNOW WHAT THE HELL YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!!!

That is why you will not be able to list the three main things about The Secret philosophy that you know are bogus!

YOU ARE A LIAR AND A SCAM ARTIST!!!

And you are about to be openly exposed as such!!!

Wednesday, October 14, 2015 3:29:00 PM  
Blogger Cosmic Connie said...

I am a devout agnostic, not a Godless atheist. I've never claimed to know much of anything, much less EVERYTHING. I'm just as bewildered by life as anyone else. And just as annoyed by hard-line skeptics as I am by New-Age ninnies and credulous followers of scammers.

Re "The Secret" -- I've seen that wacko video before, where Bob Proctor goes on and on, pretending he knows something about science. Here are three things I find bogus about "The Secret"

A) Bob Proctor
B) Joe Vitale
C) James Arthur Ray

And those are just a few of the bogus things about the movie. I could go on, and on, and on. (Rhonda Byrne herself should be up there in the list of "bogus" elements.)

Now, I realize that you actually asked me about the "philosophy" and not the "philosophers." That "philosophy" is an amalgam of various feel-good articles of New-Wage faith and pseudo-scientific but marketable nonsense, centered originally around Jerry and Esther Hicks' vision of the so-called Law of Attraction, with a bit of Wallace Wattles thrown in for good measure.

Clearly, I'm not that wild about the message. I think it takes a few legitimate points about the power of positive thinking and belief in oneself, and over-simplifies and grossly exaggerates those principles in order to appeal to narcissists. (But if YOU like it, and you think it is aiding you in "manifesting your successful destiny" or advancing your standing in Brony World...
http://brony.squares.im/SomeMaineBrony
...or whatever it is you are striving to do, that's fine with me.)

In any case it is and always has been the messengers of "The Secret" that I truly found disgusting, though I have also written at length about how the popularity of the franchise casts our culture in a pretty bad light. To me, those messengers ("teachers") are clear proof that "The Secret" was (and still is) all about the money, and about material gain, and about feeding the worst of people's narcissism and misguided sense of entitlement.

Wednesday, October 14, 2015 3:56:00 PM  
Blogger Lance Shield said...

How about I give you some help because addressing three matters at once is OBVIOUSLY more than your puny intellect can handle.

The Secret essentially says that our thoughts, properly held and acted upon, literally create the circumstances of our lives.

A) Do you feel it is bogus to believe that how we think determines the type of lives we lead? If so. How so? Please be specific

Thanks


Wednesday, October 14, 2015 4:13:00 PM  
Blogger Cosmic Connie said...

Had that been the sole message of "The Secret" I would have had few problems with it. It was not the sole message or even the main message or the intended purpose of "The Secret."

All the powerful thinking in the world can't totally set the course of our lives. There are always external circumstances BEYOND OUR CONTROL, and while we can try to control our reactions to those circumstances, we can't move the Universe with our minds, no matter how mighty we think we are. We can, however, fool ourselves into thinking that we are in control.

Wednesday, October 14, 2015 4:16:00 PM  
Blogger Cosmic Connie said...

Musings on some moral objections to "The Secret" (post is from eight and a half years ago... "The Secret" really is old news by now):
http://cosmicconnie.blogspot.com/2007/03/chopra-secret-and-unenchanted-world.html

Wednesday, October 14, 2015 4:36:00 PM  
Blogger Cosmic Connie said...

Another one... the date on the piece is Sept. 2008 but it was originally published on the CSI site in spring of 2007. Subsequently they redesigned their site and re-uploaded older articles.
http://www.csicop.org/specialarticles/show/the_wrath_of_the_secretrons/

Wednesday, October 14, 2015 4:39:00 PM  
Blogger Cosmic Connie said...

"Lance Shield": You may have noticed that your past seven or eight comments have not appeared on this blog. You're not officially "banned" but I'm simply tired of publishing your rants. I'm very patient -- much more than most bloggers would be, and some of my other readers are asking me why the heck I am wasting time and space -- but your rants have become repetitive and are adding nothing to this blog. You're making the same tired old arguments about The Secret that were discussed here and on other blogs and forums, repeatedly, eight or nine years ago.

Most of us have moved on. These days I only mention The Secret when it's relevant to one of the scammers I'm writing about, such as James Ray, or if I'm making a general comment about our culture of narcissism. But clearly when I mentioned it to you during one of our exchanges, I really hit a nerve. You seem fixated on The Secret and feel a need to defend it maniacally. Maybe it's not "working for you," whatever that may mean to you, and maybe you're in fierce denial; I don't know. All I know is that you're very defensive.

In any case your arguments and accusations have become increasingly nonsensical; for one thing, you seem to be confusing me with someone who has tried to put The Secret or the Law of Attraction to work and has been frustrated because it isn't working. I've never been remotely interested in putting The Secret to work in my life. I saw it for what it was from the beginning, when it was first released in 2006. It has given me lots of good blog fodder but even I grew bored with The Secret after a couple of years.

You did make an argument that almost made sense, and that was about how one must be focused, almost to the point of obsessiveness, to reach a goal. But that is just as much an argument against The Secret as for it. You say that this need to focus and be obsessive is one of the things left out of The Secret. You also mentioned a few other things that they don't tell you in The Secret. Given those things -- and given the smarmy hucksters who are presented as "teachers" in The Secret -- there's a lot to be said for the notion that the entire franchise is bogus.

[continued on next comment]

Thursday, October 15, 2015 3:26:00 PM  
Blogger Cosmic Connie said...

[continued from previous comment]
In one of your rants you accused me of not having watched the "free summary" of The Secret that you shared; I can only assume that you meant that promo of Bob Proctor blathering on and on about it. I told you I had seen that one. I've also seen many, many other promos and "summaries" of The Secret. I've read a transcript of the DVD. I've seen big segments of The Secret.

And (relevant to the bit above, about the need for hard work), I've seen the promo snippet where Joe Vitale, talking in The Secret, says that the Universe is like a mail-order catalog that you flip through and pick out what you want. "It really is that easy!" he enthuses. I've seen the promo snippet where James Ray, also talking in The Secret, likens the Universe to a magic genie whose wish is your command. I've seen plenty of Bob Proctor's promos for The Secret and for his own crap, using The Secret as leverage -- but I've also seen him throw The Secret under the bus:
http://cosmicconnie.blogspot.com/2008/12/how-to-reposition-your-boner-and-other.html
[Note the date: December 2008. It's an old post.]

I don't know anything about the forum owner you ranted about, who spoke out against The Secret and is now supposedly living in a trailer park. But I've never had big ambitions for this little hobby blog, have never won or tried to win any awards for it, and have no delusions that my blog is any kind of a big deal in anyone's world. The blog is a hobby and not my livelihood or my life.

Anyway, no harm, no foul. Obviously, the world won't be deprived of your wisdom because you're posting your rants about The Secret on your own blog. So carry on; party like it's 2006. I have other things to write about. And thank you for participating, but I think you've overstayed your welcome.

Thursday, October 15, 2015 3:29:00 PM  
Blogger Yakaru said...

Death Ray also threw The Secret under the bus too a while ago.

He went from saying in 2003:
"If you follow these laws I guarantee that you will succeed – every time, and in whatever endeavor you undertake."

To saying last year--
"One of the biggest fallacies for the students of the Law of Attraction (that became so popular all over the world a few years ago), is the belief that “If I understand the LOA, and execute it perfectly… then nothing bad, ugly or challenging will ever happen again in my life.” This is a lack of understanding; an illusion of the grandest proportions."

So much for the universe being like a big genie at your command. Now he's down to saying the loa still exists, and only looks as if it doesn't.

Thursday, October 15, 2015 5:08:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So if I say to the universe "bring me the head of James Ray on a skewer with cloves of garlic", with intentions of light and love, will the universe grant me it ?

Friday, October 16, 2015 3:58:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A) All
B) of
C) it

Friday, October 16, 2015 4:09:00 PM  
Blogger Lance Shield said...

http://manifestingsuccessdestiny.blogspot.com/2015/10/conversation-about-secret.html

When I start doing an excellent job of addressing your issues about The Secret you cut me off and will not allow others to see my responses.

IS THIS AN ACT OF COURAGE???

Hardly so. It is an act of a typical agnostic, dishonest COWARD!!!

You can't handle the truth so you had to cut me off

((( SPIT!!! )))

Sunday, October 18, 2015 9:26:00 PM  
Blogger Cosmic Connie said...

There is one reason and one reason only that I published the above comment, "Lance." That is because of the link to your blog post about The Secret, so that people who want to see you foam at the mouth talking to yourself can read your comments. Of course they can't actually join in the conversation, since you don't allow comments on your blog. Nor will they see the entire context of your rants, since you didn't copy and paste all of the other comments in this conversation.

But no, I didn't "cut you off" because you were starting to make sense. I cut you off because you were making less and less sense, and even I was getting bored with your nonstop lunacy. I published your comments repeatedly and stopped doing so because you were just repeating yourself and adding nothing to the conversation.

You call me a coward? Let's look at you. You're afraid to use your real name and you don't allow comments on your blog. Maybe you're scared that someone will discern your real identity and see that you are profoundly unqualified to pen anything under the theme, "Manifesting a Successful Destiny."

Clearly you have anger issues. Ask your mommy to get you some help. You'll be a happier boy.

Monday, October 19, 2015 2:04:00 PM  
Blogger RevRon's Rants said...

Lance, this lady has more courage in her little finger than you could muster up in a lifetime. You say she can't "handle the truth?" It would be far more accurate to state that you can't handle having your ass handed to you,and by a "mere GIRL," no less. :-)

Monday, October 19, 2015 2:11:00 PM  
Blogger Yakaru said...

Funny how all of these people who trust in their powers of "Manifesting a Successful Destiny" disable commenting rather than trying to manifest a few friendly comments on their scam website. They know perfectly well it's BS, but always wind up outsmarting themselves with their own rhetoric!

And then they show up on other blogs, rant like loon and start grizzling if they get moderated.... Usually because they could have got their meaning across if only they'd been allowed to post another 20,000 words.

Why do they *always* behave like that? My guess is that humans react identically to the pressure of trying to use non-existent magical powers. They get frustrated at their powerlessness.

My apologies to Connie if by writing this I am INCITING FURTHER CAPS LOCK RAGE and spamming, but as a reader (and fan) since 2006, maybe you will indulge me the odd chuckle about the behavioral quirks of the Great Masters of Manifestation.

Tuesday, October 20, 2015 5:44:00 PM  
Blogger Cosmic Connie said...

No apologies necessary, Yak. And good points, all; thanks for stopping in again. BTW, our friend followed up with another comment attempt, insinuating that *I* am a coward for blogging under the name "Cosmic Connie." But my full real name is plainly visible on my blog, and has been since the blog was launched in July 2006.

Tuesday, October 20, 2015 5:49:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Interesting thing about psychopaths is that they don't feel fear, and hence can't be courageous or brave.

Maybe one day a cure will be found for those inactive parts of the brain.

Wednesday, October 21, 2015 5:31:00 AM  
Blogger Cosmic Connie said...

Good point, Anon Wednesday, October 21, 2015 5:31:00 AM.

Thursday, October 22, 2015 10:19:00 AM  
Blogger Cosmic Connie said...

In the interest of fairness, for those who may still be interested in following "Lance's" spit bubbles, I invite you again to http://manifestingsuccessdestiny.blogspot.com/2015/10/conversation-about-secret.html

He is still trying to post comments on my blog, insisting that he has "defeated" me and that I stopped posting his comments because of that. He also declares that his blog is an "artistically positive place" and therefore does not need "to be polluted by comments of dishonorable people who break their promises for a price." You can judge both its artistry and positivity for yourself.

Lance has also declared me to be "a dishonorable scam artist who goes for the popular stance in the hopes of getting donations." Well, since I get so few donations I must be the worst scam artist on the planet. And as anyone with any power of observation knows, criticizing Scamworld gurus is hardly a "popular stance." It's quite the opposite. Even when tragedies such as Sedona happen, they're only a blip on the cultural landscape. There is far more pro-Scamworld guru content on and off the Web than anti-Scamworld content. And even though "bad news sells" as far as top stories on the evening news go, people overall would prefer to go on believing in things that are too good to be true.

And The Secret and its scammy talking heads cynically fed into that impulse.

Anyway I have no doubt that you can read "Lance's" entire comment on his "artistically positive" blog. If you want to find out more about "Lance," I guess you can always Google his name and the word "Brony." :-)

Thursday, October 22, 2015 10:35:00 AM  
Blogger Cosmic Connie said...

PS ~ After several mentions (by me) of the "Brony" connection, "Lance" finally told me he is not the Brony Lance Shield. So apparently there's another adolescent online who likes that nickname. Apologies for the mistaken identity, "Lance," but you could have corrected me after my first mention, and you did not.

Thursday, October 22, 2015 3:16:00 PM  
Blogger Yakaru said...

Artistically positive. That negative load of aggressive filth that Lance posted? Hahahahahaha

And I notice he really is ticking all the boxes for the standard New Age "positive" emotional meltdown. "Good riddance!" etc. Storms off in a huff, never to return.Oh he's back. What a surprise.

Why do they *always* do that?

Thursday, October 22, 2015 6:30:00 PM  
Blogger Cosmic Connie said...

Oh, Yak, he said that the content on HIS blog is artistically positive. Apparently he was only forced to resort to negativity because of us negative scum here. :-)

But yeah... "New Age positive emotional meltdown" sounds about right.

Thursday, October 22, 2015 6:48:00 PM  
Blogger Yakaru said...

Yeh, I was meaning the stuff that he reposted from here on his own site. He seems right proud of himself.

Friday, October 23, 2015 11:10:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What's that, Lance is leader of the Bronys? The Brony Warrior? Now that I can believe. Lance has the power of brony running in his veins.

Sunday, October 25, 2015 10:57:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lance, which one is you ?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/Bronycon_summer_2012_cosplay_session.jpg

Sunday, October 25, 2015 11:00:00 AM  
Blogger Cosmic Connie said...

Anon, see my comment above (Thursday, October 22, 2015 3:16:00 PM). Lance finally said he is not the Brony Lance. If he's telling the truth that means, as I noted, that there's another adolescent online who likes to use that nickname.

Sunday, October 25, 2015 12:38:00 PM  

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