A fellow named Dennis who was once a fan of the hit New-Wage infomercial The Secret has made a comment on one of my older posts, sharing his experiences and observations regarding a program offered by Secret stars Bob Proctor, Jack Canfield, and Michael Beckwith, The Science of Getting Rich. You might remember that program -- the infamous SGR briefcase scam -- which costs nearly $2,000.00 US to enter. Here's the link to the post and the comments; scroll down to the second remark by Dennis.Naturally, I am willing to hear from "the other side," including and especially anyone who actually got wealthy by investing in the SGR briefcase program. I am looking forward to being overwhelmed with responses from new briefcase-toting SGR millionaires.
Hi Connie,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the making the comment available to the public. My only hope is that people will finally wake up and see "Bob and his gang" for what they really are.
I do appreciate your comments on the testimonials - I noticed the testimonials myself.
Pay close attention to their first testimonial by Shazlan Sufian. Again this was another false and biased testimonial. Shazlan Sufian is Brian Wong’s (One of the partners behind the SGR Program) business partner. Ofcourse he’s going to write a good review about the product he’s probably earning money from its sales…
I haven’t finished checking on the other testimonials, but I’m pretty sure they will be biased/Faked just like the testimonials on their Mindvalleylabs product. They have a testimonial from Iplaymusic which is a company that Mike the Co-owner of Mindvalley created. Surprise.Surprise.
As for people making money through this scheme - I highly doubt you will receive any real testimonials.
You'll probably hear from fellow marketers ( who were partners), Brian wong and his group of friends and staff claiming to have earned millions. Basically all the high ranking guys who were the brains behind the operation.
Still it would be interesting and funny to hear from them.I can't wait!
Do keep in mind that These Guys are smart and have a dirty habit of comment spamming and writing fake blog comments/posts to divert the conversation inorder to protect their own interests etc - so i'd be careful about that to.
Thanks once again,
If only there were more honest people like you around.
Thank you for the additional info, Dennis. BTW, my comments on the testimonials were meant to apply not just to SGR but to many, if not most, of the "get-me-rich-quick" Internet hustledorks.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the heads-up about "These Guys'" tricks... fortunately, comments on this blog are moderated.
I'm not really expecting any genuine testimonials from average folks who became wealthy and successful from investing in SGR. But hey, the forum is open... and I'll publish just about anything that isn't obvious spam, rife with gratuitous profanity, or blatantly libelous.
Boy Connie,
ReplyDeleteHave I got new for you. Guess What! I learned that the people behind the SGR Program namely Vishen at Mindvalley, Bob and his minions are planning to relaunch the SGR Program. I wonder what this relaunch would be like? I presumed they'd launch the SGR Program again but I never expected it so soon. For all you know if Bob feels generous this time he may include a FREE Genuine Leather Journal (Made in China) to match that Leather Briefcase....
A free made-in-China leather journal?!? Count me in! Thanks for the update. I'll be watching...
ReplyDeleteConnie,
ReplyDeleteCheck out this email i received:
We would like to remind you of the following exciting event that is to take place this Thursday, September 20th at 7:00PM EST Bob Proctor will make a major announcement regarding The SGR Club!
For a preview of what is to come, go to http://www.sgrcountdown.com/.
This is an exciting time! Mark your calendars!!
Wow, I am so excited my hands are shaking! And I am probably going to have to blog about it! Thank you, Dennis! Gee, I wish I could quit writing sentences ending in exclamation points but I just can't!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteHi Dennis,
ReplyDeleteI hope you realize that the testimonials on MindValley Labs are not fake. Please do not make any such references without actually checking your facts.
Yes, I started iPlayMusic with Quincy. But, why does that make the testimonial fake?
If I wanted to do some reference checks would you give me the names of strangers or the people that really know you?
See my point? Quincy studied and used the MindValley Labs materials and then wanted to endorse them because he believed in the product.
If you have any other questions regarding MindValley and MindValley Labs, please contact me first before making any accusations. Thank you. Mike
Hey Connie,
ReplyDeleteI'm back as usual with more info to help you improve any more blog posts you may have upincoming.
I was browsing through the secretnotes.com and came accross the post:
http://thesecretnotes.com/plea-to-michael-beckwith-please-dont-go-michael/#comment-3167
This post has been unactive for a while now until recently a guy named Steve made a comment in praise of the SGR Program. If you're in the mood for a laugh do read the comment. It's the second last comment on the post (No. 58).
It's interesting how this comment popped up just in time for Bob's new relaunch. I guess it's bob's way of trying to cover the hole that was caused from this blog post in the past.
Anyways wendy a friend of mine responded to the comment with a very detailed perspective that's well worth the read and potentially something for you to blog about.
Just incase her comments were removed by the moderator ( Since Bob's Minions are behind this blog) I took the liberty of copying it:
Steve,
As a former affiliate I’ve been following this story for a while now and your post was quite entertaining however I feel that YOU may have missed the boat.
I’m not sure whether you’re a current affiliate of the SGR Program or perhaps someone behind the scheme itself but judging from your comments it sure looks that way.
If I may I would like to address some of the issues in with your post.
The Journalist - Andrew, brought up some very important issues with regard to this program and I applaud him for doing so. After reading what he had discovered and doing a little searching myself I decided to drop out as an affiliate as this Program was clearly an MLM. Most of us reading know all to well how dangerous MLM’s are!
Although the course was modified later, affiliates and subscribers had the right to know that it was illegal in its first couple of months.The affiliate scheme was later adjusted due to the threat of a class action lawsuit against Bob proctor and company. Why shouldn’t people have the right to know about the legality of this system? It cost US$2000 which is a small fortune to many.
Iregradless of time - Information like this is valuable and can be the deciding factor for most that are interested in purchasing this course. Hiding such information is only beneficial to existing affiliates and Bob Proctor who stand to make money.
It’s like buying a car. If I were to buy a car - I would like to know the mileage, previous owner etc. Buying a car blindly without knowing the history behind it would just be plain FOOLISH. It could be stolen!!
I completely disagree with your statement ” i would suggest that if you really wish to be a benefit to man-womankind then please use your power of FOCUS to be in the moment of NOW and direct that FOCUS to what it is you WANT, not on what on the lack or by judging others.”
The information provided by Andrew does serve a purpose to the community. It helps prevent scammers like David Schirmer and Bob Proctor from making fools out of the average joe. Like I said before, it was upon the discovery of Andrew’s material that I pulled out of the course and I’m very happy I did so. The SGR Program has gone bust and many affiliates are not happy with it and there have been countless complaints with regards to the system. Which to be honest was pretty much expected since this was a Pyramid Scheme.
From your comment it seems that you would like some current information on the program. Not to worry mate. I’ve got some information that will help you better understand my concerns with this course.
If you’re a fan of the Secret and the Law of attraction. You must have heard of David Schirmer. The only Australian featured in the secret who apparently claimed to receive check’s in the mail. Well it turns out that David Schirmer got those checks in the mail by asking people to invest in his company - Life Success Pacific Rim. Schirmer took money from people with the promise that they would see a return on their investment. However most of the money taken from his investors was used to fund his own lavish lifestyle i.e. a au$250, 000 dollar dining table.
A National Television Show did and expose on Schirmer who admitted to owing people hundreds of thousands of dollars and David Schirmer is now being investigated by the Australian Securities and Investments Commission for Fraud. He was supposed to return the money to his investors but failed to keep to his promises instead he dissmissed claims and in such had some of his companies suspended by Federal Authorities. Schirmer may now face Bankrupcy, Jailtime and a hefty fine.
How, you may ask is this story related to the SGR Program and Bob Proctor?
In the United States, Bob Proctor runs Life Success PLC ( Bob’s own company) and in the Pacific, Bob teamed up with Schirmer to form Life Success Pacific Rim.The company is now under investigation for Multiple Fraud Cases in Australia ( Unpaid Wages, Unpaid Taxes, Unpaid Services, Unpaid Investors…the list is endless). Schirmer introduced the SGR Program in Australia with Bob under Life Success Pacific Rim and gained investors for Life Success by riding on the Popularity of the Secret.
So, ask yourself if you would want to invest in a Program run by two guys under investigation for Multiple counts of Fraud?
If that wasn’t already enough, there’s no stopping Bob. He recently announced that he will be doing a seminar onboard a cruise. But Guess what…On the cruise Bob will also be featuring New Thought star Mary Morrissey, whose husband Edward served prison time for laundering money and using funds from his wife’s church for personal expenses, so maybe there will be something of a sense of continuity.
The whole purpose of the cruise is to relaunch the SGR Program. Bob’s final attempt to make a load of cash from unsuspecting followers before he pulls the plug on it and introduces a new program he’s developed with Mary. I’ve been waiting to see the new program and it should be very interesting. Based on what I’ve learnt of Bob so far, his expertise clearly is Fraud. Maybe he should do a course on that - so other potential con artists can make money just like he has.
Steve, I don’t think you have a clear idea what the Law of Attraction is. By providing the public with information that was withheld from them I don’t see how andrew has done a disservice to anyone except those that stood a chance to make money from the SGR Program.
Taking the Law of Attraction into account, Andrew’s comments were inevitable since Bob brought it on himself by keeping information from the public.
The same would apply to David Schirmer’s and Bob Proctor’s run in with the Law. By you’re assumption of the Law of attraction. What is happening to both of them is justified. They conned people so now the Universe is getting back at them.
I agree, that is not healthy to dwell on the past. But Steve, we learn from the past. There’s no present without a past and we grow stronger from learning from mistakes in the past. This is also a Universal fact.
When Andrew posted his comments they were during the time the SGR Program had launched so they were techincally his present thoughts and he was not dwelling on the past. He provided information we could all learn from and benefit from in the future and there is nothing wrong with that!
Imagine if Edison did not look into the mistakes he made in the first few Light Bulb’s he made. He would have never discovered their flaws and been able to correct them. You don’t always nail an invention in the first try. By learning from his mistakes he was able to develop a fully functional light bulb, and today information on edison’s inventions in the past have help us further develop the lightbulb. To say that we should ignore the Past is probably the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. By your logic - We wouldn’t have any of the inventions we use today.
Business may go through changes. But if we don’t review those initial changes how could we progress? Think about it mate. Your philosophy is pretty weak.
“Another thing about saturation of the SGR program out there, i think actually that would be a phenomenal thing!”
Wow. Words of a true SGR Program Insider / high ranking affiliate. Obviously you’re not clear on what Market Saturation is? To claim that Market Saturation is a phenomenal thing is almost like saying the guy behind the Ponzi Scheme should be knighted. Essentially Market Saturation means that when - many sellers enter the market for one particular product. Only the strong will survive. In the case of the SGR Program ( High Ranking Affiliates that are also Partners in the course - Brian Proctor, Stephen Pierce and Mindvalley). They know all the tips and tricks to make the course work for them and even had a headstart in selling the course which gave them a very strong advantage.
Regular folks who try and promote their affiliate page will just be shot down and wont stand a chance to make much money or even cover their initial investment for that matter. Market Saturation is one of the key elements of a Pyramid Scheme and is also the element which makes it illegal and a garunteed failure (by which I mean the company running the scheme will eventually shut it down and start a new one).
“My point is if everyone was a seller and used the program to enrich their lives, wouldnt this be a totally different planet? ”
Nice sales pitch but unfortunately I wasn’t born yesterday. Scheme’s like the SGR Program do not have a very high success rate and this has been very evident. Only Proctor and his company benefit from it. Most actually loose money to it. I highly doubt it many would become rich selling this scam.
“There is true power in the words and ideas that this program or system has at its root.”
Very true and most of that including the Mp3 and books are available online for free if you know where to look.
“Bob Proctor and others, from what i have read gave heartfelt communication to people’s concerns.”
I met with someone who had involvement with this course. Bob’s replies were set by his lawyers to prevent legal action against him. He did not bring up any of the concerns Andrew raised and FAILED to come clean.
“You spoke of alot of people who have been disappointed and are not making money from their investment of the SGR program. All i can hope for is that all those people you directed to this site and others to read your concerns about the past is that they learn to FOCUS on what it really is they WANT and to keep that FOCUS in mind while people like yourself Andrew and your EGO constantly remind and model for them, your FOCUS on the past, what it is you lack or dont want, and to squander their power by doing so.Our true creative power is utilized in this very moment, NOW! not by FOCUSING on the past, judging others etc”
What Andrew stated was an absolute fact. The SGR Program has been a dissapointment to many including my self and I have removed all association of my self from it. That way when the ship sinks I’ll be safely at shore.
Steve. I must say. Your advice is very misleading and is a misrepresentation of the Law of Attraction to benefit the SGR Program and yourself.
You said that people should focus on what they want. I agree. But one learns from the past. For example: Today one would dismiss a Nigerian Letter or a Ponzi Scheme because of what we know of them from past experiences. If society dismessed past experiences and only focused on the future we wouldn’t learn anything valuable and fall victim to more scams. Perhaps this is what you are aiming for.
I don’t believe Andrew owes anyone and apology and infact I feel many of us who got the red flags about this program before it’s too late owe him a “Thank You”. He did the public a favour and didn’t ask for anything in return. He provided fact where none was given and helped stop proctor from scamming more suckers out of their hard earned money.
If you took the time to research before you write you would know that Cathy Lane aka the owner of this Blog is infact one of the People behind the SGR Program and this Blog was used by her as a promotion tool to the course. She was well aware of the flaws behind this course but failed to provide an insight into the matter. Instead her company tried to Buy off the reporter so he would stop posting comments by offering him free tickets/products.
I would hardly sympathize with someone with such low morals. Who despite knowing the truth denied every last bit of information in the public eye whilst agreeing to mistakes in an email conversation with the reporter. It mimics the behaviour of David Schirmer.
My hopes are very different from yours. I hope that everyone reading this will know fully understand the controversy behind this scam and think twice before investing in it or any other like it. I also hope that people reading this will the length affiliates will go to feed their hunger for money despite their actions being moral, just or ethical. I hope people will focus on the present as well (in this case David Schirmers and Bob Proctors run in with the Law) and learn from the past ( The legal issues brought up by Andrew Geller on the SGR Program).
Becareful about how you spend your money! If it sounds to good to be true it usually is…My advice - Consult a real professional and not someone who claims to be one. Bob proctor claims to be a success coach but so did David Schirmer and so does Dr. Joe Vitale. Who is even a real doctor “Dr.” - He gave himself the title to establish credibility which inturn gets him money.
Sigining off,
Wendy
Mike makes a good point that not all testimonials are fake in the worst sense. The people who write them are real enough, and they may even believe in the product -- or at least they may be friends with the person selling the product. And sure, we all know that people who are selling things on the Net call upon their buddies to help push the product with testimonials. It's done all the time -- for example, a large number of the glowing reviews that people such as Joe Vitale get for their books on Amazon are from their buds. NBD.
ReplyDeleteSo Dennis may have misspoken about the "fake testimonials" and I didn't address that. I'm sorry for the oversight, Mike.
But what *I* want to know is this: how many average folks who sign on to the SGR program -- and who aren't friends of Bob Proctor, et al., or of the people at Mindvalley -- actually GET RICH?
And here's another point: If all of the people who sign up for SGR actually get "rich," won't that just raise the bar for "rich" -- so that it no longer means squat to be a multimillionaire? Won't it take a lot more money to even be below the poverty scale? Aren't there some major economic laws that dicatate this stuff?
Or are there scientific laws that override the economic ones? If one signs up for SGR, or even just believes in LOA, does the Universe then start vomiting out money and resources so everyone who signed up for the program has enough, or, better yet, more than enough? (Enough really just isn't enough any more.)
I really want to know these things! And I want a free leather briefcase made in China! As long as it isn't contaminated with deadly chemicals like their pet food and toothpaste! I want to be one of those dancing business geeks with free leather briefcases that are shown (briefly) on the new SGR teaser! Except I can't dance worth a flip! But I do look okay in a bidness suit! Oh, there I go writing in exclamation points again!
Sorry, Mike. Just having fun. I thank you for writing and clarifying about the testimonials.
Thanks, Dennis! Mike's comment came in first, and yours apparently came into my email in box while I was still writing my comment.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I scanned your latest comment (and the post you quote) and will review it all in more detail after I finish waking up. (Had a late night.)
Thanks again...more later.
One comment on the subject of "fake" testimonials...
ReplyDeleteIt is common (and ethical) practice when issuing praise for a product or business that the individual issuing the glowing report include the "standard disclaimer," viz a viz, "I have absolutely no vested interest in the product/company/individual, and receive no benefit from my association with it/them."
If those who heap praise on these products/companies/individuals would include such a disclaimer, their testimony would carry a higher level of credibility. If, however, the disclaimer turned out to be false, they would leave themselves liable for prosecution for fraud. Either way, the "endorsement business" would get cleaned up, and the scammers would be forced to going back to selling Amway.
Good point, Ron. Of course, total honesty in testimonials would eliminate...well, pretty much all of the glowing testimonials for some of the Internet gurus.
ReplyDeleteHey, Dennis, I just noticed that Wendy used a snippet from my Sept. 2 post, "Ship Of Fools," where I wrote about Scientist Bob's upcoming hustledork cruise. I wrote:
ReplyDelete"...Bob will be featuring New Thought star Mary Morrissey, whose husband Edward served prison time for laundering money and using funds from his wife's church for personal expenses, so maybe there will be something of a sense of continuity."
Wendy wrote:
"…On the cruise Bob will also be featuring New Thought star Mary Morrissey, whose husband Edward served prison time for laundering money and using funds from his wife’s church for personal expenses, so maybe there will be something of a sense of continuity."
Cool! :-) And thank you for copying Wendy's comments here, just in case they do get "mysteriously removed" from their original place.
(Thank you too, Wendy!)
What I really found amusing was Steve's New-Wage rationale about the legitimacy (and ethics) of the SGR scheme:
"From what i understand Andrew, you are attempting to illuminate on some ways the SGR program at launch was illegal and that certain information was withheld etc. You say that you are genuinely concerned for the investment that people have laid out or will lay out for the SGR program. As well as your continued FOCUS on mistakes that were made initially at launch of the SGR program.
Anyways, ENOUGH, on what you have said, it’s all in the past NOW. i would suggest that if you really wish to be a benefit to man-womankind then please use your power of FOCUS to be in the moment of NOW and direct that FOCUS to what it is you WANT, not on what on the lack or by judging others. Not only have you done a disservice to anyone involved or that would like to be involved in the SGR program, but you have missed the boat entirely with what the ‘law of attraction’ is all about! FOCUS on what it is you want, not on the lack of it. And most importantly, FOCUS that power in the present moment, not on PAST events. It is a universal fact that to have change in your life presently you need to FOCUS on what it is you would like and have clarity and deep emotion and feelings on those thoughts, NOT on what is presently in your FOCUS. From what i have seen, you have used your power to FOCUS on past events that you say people should be aware of about the SGR program. Imagine if someone kept focusing on Edison’s first few attempts at making the light bulb stating how they failed etc. Any business venture will have continuous changes to it as that venture is progressed through time. To FOCUS on initial changes is insane and can only get you what it is you are FOCUSING on."
In other words, "Focus on the NOW; the fact that we screwed you in the past is irrelevant."
Spoken like a true New-Wager! :-)
And why do they always have to bring Edison or Einstein or some other dead genius into it? Rolling my eyes...
Hey Connie,
ReplyDeleteIt's always a pleasure to read your blog. I've searched the net and yours has the best original content so far. I'm just glad I could contribute some information I have on this matter to you and your readers.
Steve is quite a character and I think your observation about him is spot on. Like Wendy said, if we ignored information from past i.e. Nigerian scams, Ponzi schemes etc
We stand a greater chance of getting scammed in the future.
I would think that given the Secret's association with geniuses like Newton etc, Steve and many other SGR chronies seem to think that by associating the program with somebody respectable they would gain credibility. How pathetic...
I wonder what scientists like einstein and newton would have to say, had they been alive today.
It seems that the scientific community has some major concerns on the secret and the law of attraction, which they feel is polluting the minds of the public (Making them Lazy and Greedy).
Who could blame them? After watching David Schirmer brag about how he used to get checks in the mail after visualizing them people are bound to take life for granted!
Boy am I glad the Law of attraction caught up with that creep - I'd like to see him write checks out to the people he owes money to now!
How I love the irony in this :)
As for Mike's comment. I find it interesting how Mike who is one of the founders of Mindvalley took the time to clarify the testimonials on the Mindvalley Flagship product but never addressed the testimonials on the SGR Program which were written by Partners in the Venture.
This post was about the SGR Program and one of the main concerns was the credibility of the SGR Program testimonials. Yet Mike chose to leave that out of the discussion.
It's possible he's forwarded this blog post to Life Success and Proctor.
Connie, I'd keep a watchful eye. They have been known to resort to very unethical tactics to stop any potential threat to their business of ripping people off i.e. email threats, comment spamming...
If Mindvalley is all they claim to be I hope they realize that Bob's nothing but trouble before it's to late!
Finally, I wanted to thank you for posting Wendy's response to Steve comment. Since thesecretnotes.com is run by Mindvalley and Mike has now discovered this blog they might have Wendy's comment deleted like they did to Andrew.
Also If you have the time, you might want to check out the Mindvalley Labs product. Apparently Proctor is their Star Client. They helped him generate an estimated US$2 million in sales from the SGR Program. Why am I not surprised? He's in the top end of the food chain in relation to this Pyramid Scheme. I wonder how much Mindvalley, Brain Wong, Stephen Pierce made?
Many thanks, Dennis... this just gets better and better! :-)
ReplyDeleteHi Guys, I took the Secret to heart and the more I practiced the laws, the more I was coming closer to greater wealth. I Followed up on the authors and read the books that made Rhonda Byrne successful, just so that I was settled in my own mind that these were facts. And they are. If people are a little open minded, they would find positive experiences come their way. I have literally doubled my salary in 3 months by religious practice of the principles of the Secret. I also was motivated and inspired to start my own business with my girlfriend.. The stories are phenomenal on the way transactions took place. Now I live happily with gratitude earning 5 times what I started with, while sharing a portion of my profits to uplift humanity. I truly feel good and am a happier person. And all thanks to Bob Proctor and his team. We just need to lose our pride and learn from successful people. Skepticism is the deadly enemy of progress & self development. Fair enough, I acknowledge that there are alot of sales pitch and marketing hype in these success writers advertising.. but don't you think we could learn from that, instead of criticizing others? Think smart guys, Think Success
ReplyDeleteHey, Navz, I'm glad it's workin' for you. I'm always glad to hear from people who say the things I snark about really worked for them.
ReplyDeleteOne thing bothers me, though. You say you took The Secret to heart and practiced its laws, and that your success is all thanks to Bob Proctor and his team. Are you aware that Proctor is now saying The Secret was just fluff, that it didn't even do justice to the Law of Attraction, and that it left out eleven other important universal "laws," without which LOA won't work properly?
Just wondering. (See my blog post of 21 December, 2008, for more info.)
Hi Connie
ReplyDeleteYes, I know that his team is using more sales hype to sell the "details" of self development. However long before they developed the 11 unforgotten laws, I had already become a student of mind psychology to attain success. From my viewpoint, the Secret planted a seed for self-motivation.. so its intention worked. From thereon, it was up to the individual to acquire more information. And this actually happened quite naturally while putting the teachings into daily practice. It really is awesome. I actually understand exactly what proctor is thinking when he is selling a course. I have somehow got to understand their thinking by carefully studying them. And what really helped me, is studying their mentors & their writings :-) There is a whole lot more to the Secret. You just need to have an inquiring mind! I wish everyone reading this, all the best in attaining happiness in the true sense of the word.
MindValley's business practices are a scam. I can tell you that as a former employee disgusted with their ethics.
ReplyDeleteThe SGR Program was partnered with Bob Proctor, Brian Wong and Mike Reining. From what I understand, Brian is Proctor's "student"/"mentor", and Brian pitched with Mike to Bob Proctor's team to be able to have this product.
The 11 Forgotten Laws is the same as Holliwell's "Working with the Law. I'm not sure abot the SGR Program though.
I'm not sure if the original testimonials are real, as I was not around then.
As for the affiliate scheme - only a rare few actually make good money out of the affiliate programs according to the affiliate manager.
Personally, I believe in Caveat Emptor. In the second edition of SGR (totally electronic), the price is much lower and the content is the same. Bob Proctor is a Master Salesperson and Motivator. One can certainly get the Wallace Wattles masterpiece as a free e-book, but without Bob's presentation it is harder to implement. The same is true for Bob and Mary's presentation of Working with the Law. No one can get something valuable for nothing, so if you make only $1000 because of these two programs, you will be over $600 richer!
ReplyDeleteHmm. What about Bob.
ReplyDeleteThis is such a touchy topic. Is the so called secret a big piece of money sucking crap? Yes, of course it is.
Is the law of attraction a a gigantic simplification/magicifacation of how the world really works? Sure it is.
But is is *always* harmful? I'm not sure I think so, and this where you and I tend to differ.
Bob, to my knowledge is a tad more concerned with his reputation than Mr. Vitale, I'd day, though to be fair, I do not follow any of this very closely. Joe's Miracles Coaching is a pretty gross thing to do to people, on the other hand, I haven't seen Mr. Proctor encouraging people to max out credit cards or anything.
In the end is it really any different than selling a food dehydrator or a guitar on an late night infomercial? I don't think so. No product exists in a vacuum, someone has to be willing to buy it, and if people are willing to buy it, we cannot hold the sellers responsible.
The law of attraction is a feel good product. People like to feel good. 90% of the time, I don't think anyone is harmed by it.
It's the 10% stuff, the Miracles coaching crap, that bothers me.
We can vilainize nearly any industry we want, and sometimes they really are villains behind them. But to be honest, if someone is dumb enough to smoke a cigarette, I have a hard time feeling sorry for them, or finding the company at fault for their own stupidity.
And so it is for new wage.
Hi, Jonathan, and thanks for your comments. Although at times I come across as vehemently against all New-Wage gurus and products, and it might appear that I look upon all of them as evil (as evil as a Chucky doll, ha, ha), if you take all of my 400-plus blog posts into account you may see a much more moderate viewpoint than that of other critical bloggers. (Some think I'm wishy-washy.) At the very least you'll see that I often have arguments with myself about whether or not I'm being (1) Too hard on the New-Wage gurus; or (2) Too easy on them. I've never said that New-Wage is always harmful, although again, I can see how some of my focused blog posts make it seem that way.
ReplyDeleteMy 'Conversations With Peter Wink' series last year might provide some illumination; here's one:
http://cosmicconnie.blogspot.com/2010/05/conversations-with-peter-wink-part-3.html
Peter was once Joe Vitale's VP of Marketing and is currently doing the same for Kevin True-dough. Interestingly enough, many people thought I was being too kind to and uncritical of Peter and the industry he represents.
Also, here's a long-ish post discussing issues such as whether or not the self-help industry is harmful.
http://cosmicconnie.blogspot.com/2010/03/self-help-regulation-necessary.html
(If you've already read these lengthy offerings, my apologies for bringing them up again.)
As I've discussed here before -- but it's an important issue, and I'm glad you brought it up -- I think the self-help industry is more than just another industry. Yes, one can vilify just about any industry. Yes, it can be argued that industries such as Big Oil and Big Pharma have exerted far greater influence (and harm) than self-help. And it's true that many self-help marketing tactics are pretty much the same as those used in other industries.
The difference, IMO, is that self-help gurus mess with people's minds and, if you believe in such things, their souls, in ways that manufacturers of food dehydrators and guitars don't even pretend to do. Hence I think there's a greater degree of accountability. Of course I think Big Oil and Big Pharma should also be far more accountable than they are, but for several reasons I happen to be particularly interested in New-Wage, and it's a topic that isn't saturated yet, which is one reason I chose it as my "beat."
I wish I were more at liberty to comment about Scientist Bob. I'll just say that there are other types of misdeeds besides encouraging people to max out their credit cards.
Thank you as always for being part of these important conversations.
Hi, I just watched the Bob Proctor - You Were Born Rich Seminar DVD's and I cannot fault it. Not once did I understand him to endorse any "get-rich-quick" schemes but to value ourselves as the powerful beings that were have been created to be through posititve awareness, understanding and expectations.
ReplyDeleteI don't really know of any other affiliations he has... just that I am going to tell anyone who is even slightly interested in growing themselves as a more successful person in ANY area of their life about the You Were Born Rich program.
Sincerely, Don.