tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31759120.post5824101434314316614..comments2024-02-11T15:41:08.332-06:00Comments on Whirled Musings: Sweat lodge deaths: is the heat on Secret star?Cosmic Conniehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09425191794680677900noreply@blogger.comBlogger255125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31759120.post-64653068272840710072012-05-07T19:11:39.864-05:002012-05-07T19:11:39.864-05:00BTW: HandfulOfRice (if you're still here): A b...BTW: HandfulOfRice (if you're still here): A belated acknowledgement of your excellent comment of Thursday, April 15, 2010 11:03:00 PM. Sorry I didn't acknowledge it when it came in.Cosmic Conniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09425191794680677900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31759120.post-47059789886479983862012-05-07T19:09:38.387-05:002012-05-07T19:09:38.387-05:00Yes, Anon, this post was intentionally long. I kep...Yes, Anon, this post was intentionally long. I kept adding to it as there were more updates on the sweat lodge story. Finally it became too unwieldy, so I quit and just went for occasional updates in subsequent posts, tweets, and, later, Facebook statuses. On numerous occasions I linked to posts from other bloggers such as Salty Droid and LaVaughn, who provided excellent coverage and commentary in the aftermath of the Sedona deaths.<br /><br />As for James Ray's intentions, they seemed to be mostly about making money and feeding his bloated ego, with little regard to the well being of others. IMO, there's a great deal of evidence to support this observation: most notably, his well-documented behavior in the years before (and even immediately after) the fatal sweat lodge. So while he may not have intended for anyone to die, people did die because of him, and it is my hope that the public will remember this after he completes his short prison sentence.Cosmic Conniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09425191794680677900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31759120.post-4645175124840309812012-05-04T01:39:44.325-05:002012-05-04T01:39:44.325-05:00hello there "Snarky" girl and all the ot...hello there "Snarky" girl and all the other various contributors to this important discussion. First: you are entirely too purple in all your posts! :) Second: your post site is ridiculously long! i've been in many sweat lodges that were more doable... (i wonder how many folks i've already inspired to send "unhappy responses" to my comments already? so i'll close it up by simply saying that: INTENTION is what it is about. Not money, not any of the other motives suggested. And... that is what is the glistening blade of determination. IN this situation as with most others. I don't know James A. Ray's intentions with the sweat lodge being discussed. And while some who were there apparently offered their perspectives of what happened? i am sure of one thing: none of them knew or knows the intention of anyone there; including Ray.<br />now... there is a whole bunch of behavior that sugests that this man is not who we would be if we were faced with the same situation and ... we were able to act as perfectly as we all seem to find it so easy to do when we are not "in that situation"! personally i would never have charged such outrageous sums of money to help others to transcend their current barriers keeping them from being their highest selves in this life! but then again, i would never have presented myself as being something that could "be" such a thing as "something greater" that exists outside of them SELVES. all traditions of self awareness teach the same thing... everything we search for is within each of us. but clearly... there is not much profit in teaching that no one needs our teachings, now is there? :) by the way, i do care about the people that died at this event. all of them.... and the list goes on still. find what you seek within, THAT is what "self help" truly means! and it is the genuine path to greater awareness and empowerment. self inflation i assure you is the farthest thing from ANY SPIRITUAL path. Anyone who offers genuine service to others with zero desire to "profit" monetarily is seriously the only "other" person than yourselves that you should EVER listen to in life!! and every single one of those spiritual folks will all direct you to YOUR SELVES. peace within, love with all, william (I started to sign "Divine Will" but it... just seemed to "snarky". ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31759120.post-24675828830698065192010-04-15T23:03:58.410-05:002010-04-15T23:03:58.410-05:00In response to Anonymous... have you ever been in ...In response to Anonymous... have you ever been in a sweat lodge? It is a beautiful experience when properly led. I've been in several, mostly led by native chiefs. The reverence for both ritual and life there is what makes the ceremony so special. The sweat lodge is a ceremony of surrender, and a great deal of responsibility is placed on the leader. This is why native leaders are guided and trained over many years. Upon entering, one enters sacred space... not common space. It's no sauna with a warning sign on the door. The leader of the lodge takes the participants into a place of prayer and contemplation, and gentle challenge. <br /><br />I've been in a couple of lodges with not-as-trained leaders who operated more from the ego rather than from a space of strength and compassion. They were tough lodges. Fortunately, no leader shamed me for sitting out a round or not returning. It's already difficult to be in that space and not feel that you're not good enough if you can't finish. A good leader lets you off that hook very purposefully - it's part of the healing. You are good enough no matter how long you stay. While there is gentle encouragement, mostly in the very beginning when there may be fear about the experience itself, it should never involve chiding or any kind of obstruction. We are vulnerable in the sweat lodge. <br /><br />Had I been following and trusting a leader for a long time and believed he would do me no harm - especially during my first ever sweat lodge, having nothing to compare the experience to - and I paid a lot of money for the experience - and I had been told that I needed to go beyond my limits in order to succeed - I'd have a hard time reconciling between what sounds like a leader pushing me for my own good and what my body was telling me. Just as in hypothermia (the body getting too cold), the balance towards hyperthermia (too hot) comes quickly. Perceptions are somewhat altered by just being in the setting of the sweat lodge, and the brain is stressed by the heat. This is why it is so very important to have a leader who knows what s/he is doing. James Ray portrayed himself as a knowledgeable leader, which he was not. He was more than irresponsible.<br /><br />Sadly, James Ray's teachings contain a powerful psychological hook for many people and that hook is shame. It's always the build-up of unlimited potential (you can have anything you desire!) versus reality (but I still don't have what I want), coupled with a strong dose of very negative personal responsibility (if you don't have it, you're not working hard enough). Highly educated people with good hearts who have already gotten this message deeply - that they have so much potential and yet are never quite good enough - are vulnerable to the fantasies that someone like James Ray offers. Unfortunately, teachings like his only bring them deeper into the web - his web. To be healing (as happens in a good sweat lodge) one would offer that each person is quite wonderful and worthy just as they are. Instead, they find themselves more and more deeply dissatisfied and defeated by the very work that they hoped would lift them up. He smiles and encourages them to have more faith, work harder, come to more seminars. They're almost there! Finally, days in and many defeats later, they believe that if they can just make it through this sweat lodge then they'll be free.<br /><br />Anonymous, if you want to check on your theory of personal responsibility while in a sweat lodge, I would invite you to seek out and participate in one that is run by a well-trained welcoming native leader. Then, read the accounts of people who were in James Ray's sweat lodge, put yourself in their place and consider again. Remember to imagine that you have known James Ray for years.<br /><br />James Ray led others to believe he was trustworthy in a situation that required that trust. He did not fulfill the role of the leader, and people died and were injured due to his lack of self-awareness and care for others.HandfulOfRicenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31759120.post-38618766056613664002010-04-15T20:14:51.546-05:002010-04-15T20:14:51.546-05:00Yep, Bryan, those quotations from James Ray pretty...Yep, Bryan, those quotations from James Ray pretty much say it all.<br /><br />Thank you for joining the discussion here. (And sorry for the delay in publishing the comments; I was away from the computer most of the day.)Cosmic Conniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09425191794680677900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31759120.post-40355868201561399472010-04-15T16:27:25.034-05:002010-04-15T16:27:25.034-05:00"Leave her alone, she'll be dealt with i..."Leave her alone, she'll be dealt with in the next round" (Kirby Brown) is pretty much the definition of manslaughter.Bryan Neumannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31759120.post-15503940320907602122010-04-15T16:25:27.337-05:002010-04-15T16:25:27.337-05:00Heat stroke symptoms-Unconscious or has a markedly...Heat stroke symptoms-Unconscious or has a markedly abnormal mental status (dizziness, confusion, hallucinations, or coma). Then throw in fasting, water and sleep deprevation and #JamesARay telling them to push past this, your stronger than this, you may feel like you're going to die, but you won'tBryan Neumannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31759120.post-92076514821405116482010-04-15T14:51:37.868-05:002010-04-15T14:51:37.868-05:00Heat stroke symptoms-Unconscious or has a markedly...Heat stroke symptoms-Unconscious or has a markedly abnormal mental status (dizziness, confusion, hallucinations, or coma). Then throw in fasting and sleep deprevation and #JamesARay telling them to push past this, "you may feel like you're going to die, but you're not"bryanneumannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31759120.post-75118656592368461602010-04-15T12:10:18.177-05:002010-04-15T12:10:18.177-05:00Anon, unfortunately, even intelligent people can b...Anon, unfortunately, even intelligent people can be gullible when their hopes overwhelm their pragmatism. And yes, there are people who buy into a marketer's persuasion simply because they are stupid.<br /><br />However, I think it disingenuous (at best) to imply that Ray et al should not face severe consequences for taking advantage of others' weaknesses, whether those weaknesses be manifest as gullibility, stupidity, or anything other than cynical greed and opportunism.<br /><br />As to laying the "blame" for the deaths on people like Connie for not being more timely in reporting what they see, I'll just have to assume this was a desperate attempt to dilute the real abusers' responsibility for their actions. As such, I seriously doubt that any rational person would take such an accusation seriously. Nice try, though.RevRon's Rantshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07786080982796903930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31759120.post-8045359255144744822010-04-15T11:58:28.548-05:002010-04-15T11:58:28.548-05:00Ha, ha, Anon April 15 (12:06 AM)... excellent paro...Ha, ha, Anon April 15 (12:06 AM)... excellent parody. Or is it mere pot-stirring, just for the hell of it? Well played, in either case.<br /><br />In the event that you're actually serious, though... there are in fact several schools of thought about the James Ray debacle, and one major theme is that Ray is actually a well-trained and sinister persuader. There are a couple of very long threads on the Rick Ross forum addressing this very point. While I have had some differences myself with some of the points made on that forum, I wholeheartedly agree with the opinion of many that no matter how intelligent and rational a person is, s/he can always be vulnerable in some way to a skilled manipulator.<br /><br />As for my blog in any way being responsible for the sweat lodge deaths (because I didn't work hard enough to get the information out there on new-age sites) -- ha, ha, good one. But again, if you do happen to be trying to make a serious point... I've said more than once that even though I've long had a jaded, cynical and snarky view of New-Wage/selfish-help/McSpirituality, the sweat lodge deaths took me by surprise. If I've erred at all in my long years of being a "critic," it's that I've always underestimated the "dark side" -- the real dangers of some New-Wage gurus and techniques.<br /><br />At any rate, my blog has been on the Interwebs since late July of 2006. Since it has been just a hobby I have never gone out of my way to promote it or to push it in people's faces. It's there for people who want and need it.<br /><br />As for the people who died in James Ray's sweat lodge being stupid and/or responsible for their own deaths, why don't you try telling that to the families and close friends of Liz Neuman, Kirby Brown and James Shore? Several of these friends and relatives are on Twitter. They're using their real names, too, not hiding behind some "Anon" moniker.<br /><br />Better yet, use your real name when you tell them how stupid their dead loved ones were, and how it was Liz, Kirby's and James' fault that they spent $10,000 to have James Ray kill them.<br /><br />I dare you.Cosmic Conniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09425191794680677900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31759120.post-1036220494948042052010-04-15T00:06:36.906-05:002010-04-15T00:06:36.906-05:00Everyday we are 'persuaded'by marketing pr...Everyday we are 'persuaded'by marketing promising all sorts of experiences. There must be a point where capable adults take responsibility for what advice they accept. If you were in the sweat lodge (by some freak chance) and were feeling weak, maybe you would go "stuff this, I'm outta here!" By the tone of most comments people here would trust in their own sense. Blaming Ray entirely is a sad cop out for neglecting to engage ones 'autonomy' of thought. <br />To blame Ray only is to admit (to yourselves) that he does have an influence over people to such an extent that they cannot overcome his influence. The people that died are responsible for their deaths as well. It is harsh but rational. There is enough access to the internet to enable reaonable research on just about anything. Who would spend $10000 without looking at the pros and cons of an event and people organising the event!? <br />Maybe you could take some of the responsibilty (for the deaths mentioned) for not having this blog and information in it more visible in the new age media. You took on the responsibility of providing alternative information about 'gurus'and the like and in a sense failed in your duties to keep the people properly informed. Or maybe it's their (the deceased)fault for thinking they could sweat their way to enlightenment. <br />This is in your mind now, like it or not, post it or not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31759120.post-8696353113626210332010-01-13T13:23:23.891-06:002010-01-13T13:23:23.891-06:00Thanks, Yakaru, for the reminder of Schirmer's...Thanks, Yakaru, for the reminder of Schirmer's worse than ludicrous statement. He made it fairly soon after the incident first came to light in October; I wonder if he has changed his mind at all. Something tells me he hasn't. BTW, some will probably notice that I haven't been keeping up with the infamous Secret star from Oz as much lately as I had been in the past. But that will probably change, especially if he makes another effort to hit the U.S. market in a big way. Of course if he does, not only I but the Salty Droid will be waiting! ;-)Cosmic Conniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09425191794680677900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31759120.post-6307389085352475142010-01-13T12:54:58.628-06:002010-01-13T12:54:58.628-06:00I finally forced myself to watch the video of Schi...I finally forced myself to watch the video of Schirmer throwing his support behind Death Ray. Ok, I lie. I managed 2 minutes 11 seconds before losing my temper and shouting at my poor innocent computer screen. I remained calm when he said he prays for the families of the deceased "and especially" for James and his team. The last straw was when he said that the media would sensationalise it, "and it doesn't matter whether it costs businesses, lives or relationships..."<br /><br />So the media coverage is going to cost lives.<br /><br />Is it possible to forcibly inject shame into people? Someone should invent it and put him on a drip.Yakarunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31759120.post-1014735319530754732010-01-01T20:03:51.579-06:002010-01-01T20:03:51.579-06:00Thank you for your thoughtful comment, Terry. Actu...Thank you for your thoughtful comment, Terry. Actually I haven't shifted on my position (not yet, anyway); being the quasi-Libertarian I am, my first tendency is to advocate freedom of information rather than more laws and restrictions.<br /> <br />Am I being too idealistic? Maybe. It is one of the questions I've been weighing since long before the James Ray debacle came to light. On the one hand, there is the prospect of a "Nanny State," which I find a bit unsettling. How far are we prepared to go to protect people from their own choices?<br /><br />On the other hand, I realize that consumers aren't necessarily making *informed* choices when they sign up for an event and aren't told ahead of time exactly what will occur during that event. (The waivers that participants are made to sign don't count.)<br /><br />I also realize that businesses have a tendency to try to get away with anything they can get away with in order to make a profit. Sometimes it does seem that it takes a heavy hand to keep this impulse in check, to prevent people from being scammed or physically harmed, and to give victims some recourse. <br /><br />So I can certainly understand why many people think there should be more regulation of the self-help industry. I'm just not prepared at this point to say the government should put a stranglehold on the industry. <br /><br />I think the issue is further complicated by the fact that so many of the gurus deal in the realm of the spiritual as well as more mundane areas such as, say, finances and fitness. So I wonder if freedom-of-religion issues would come into play.<br /><br />The issues are complex and I am open to more discussions about this. And I want you to know, Terry, that I respect what you and Amy are trying to accomplish, and it looks to me as if you are both motivated by a desire to help people. <br /><br />On the other hand, another vocal advocate of regulating the self-help industry is the (in)famous Deepak Chopra, who seems to be more interested in protecting his turf than in protecting consumers. That's how it looks to me, anyway. My sense is that he feels that because he is an M.D., he would be insulated from any attempts to clip *his* wings. Never mind that in the opinion of many other M.D.s (and other folks as well), he is pushing an insidious form of pseudoscience...<br /><br />Anyway, thanks for weighing in on this important issue.Cosmic Conniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09425191794680677900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31759120.post-70934508638912171742010-01-01T14:46:06.131-06:002010-01-01T14:46:06.131-06:00Connie,
It's interesting to see your shift a...Connie, <br /><br />It's interesting to see your shift about seminar regulation. The seminar/self-help industry is already subject to FTC guidelines and it has not prevented financial, emotional and physical harm to their customers.<br /><br />The Real Estate, Financial Services, Insurance, Contracting, Massage Industries have been licensed due to their propensity toward unethical business practices and behaviors which have caused harm to consumers and the general public.<br /><br />While licensing does NOT ensure the public is protected, it does provide a "code of ethics", "business standards & practices", "a barrier to entry", "a grievance process" and "stipulated recourse for violations" which serves to protect consumers from charlatans.<br /><br />The $11,000,000,000 self-help & personal growth industry, in my mind has proven that it will not "self-regulate" and continue to take everything it can, including human life from their customers.terry hall @bizsayerhttp://bizsayer.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31759120.post-57554020208109281182009-12-17T09:21:36.023-06:002009-12-17T09:21:36.023-06:00Randall Sexton said...
"Too many posts to re...Randall Sexton said...<br /><br />"Too many posts to read but here's an FYI..."<br /><br />Thanks for the link to that interesting site, Randall. The link you provided didn't work so I scrolled down to get the permalink to the article to which I believe you were trying to point:<br />http://psychsymposium.com/69<br /><br />You're right about my post being way too long for someone who's busy or short on time. It's more or less a journal now rather than merely a blog post, as I've been adding on to it since October 9.<br /><br />The article you pointed to, as well as other articles on that site, should indeed provide some insights for those who question the merits of sweat lodges.<br /><br />I know I made some snarky comments about the tradition myself (mainly centered around its trendiness among affluent white folk), and I know that the first comment in the discussion section, as well as my response to that comment, centered around the issue of sweat lodges. But that's far from the only issue discussed here (and again, I understand if you don't have the time or patience to work your way through the more than 230 comments on the discussion). <br /><br />For me, however, the big issue with the whole James Arthur Ray debacle has never been about the merits, or lack thereof, of the sweat lodge ritual. I do have at least a rudimentary understanding of the tradition and purpose of sweat lodges, as well as an understanding of why many Native Americans are p.o.'d at the way the tradition has been co-opted by some New-Wage gurus and their followers. <br /><br />My big issue with James Arthur Ray and his colleagues has been that many of them are manipulative sociopaths (in my unprofessional opinion) who, for the most part, are marketing nonsense. Occasionally their enterprises take a deadly turn but more often than not they result in people wasting a great deal of time and money on what I think is crap.<br /><br />In any case, thanks for stopping in. And for everyone else who is interested in sweat-lodge rituals and their applications, the site Randall pointed to contains numerous other articles about the topic.<br /><br />Here's the main link:<br />http://psychsymposium.comCosmic Conniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09425191794680677900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31759120.post-65622051391079783002009-12-17T07:51:20.551-06:002009-12-17T07:51:20.551-06:00Too many posts to read but here's an FYI:
htt...Too many posts to read but here's an FYI:<br /><br />http://psychsymposium.com/5eRandall Sextonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08942283223874316290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31759120.post-72215975451108265912009-12-14T15:34:56.528-06:002009-12-14T15:34:56.528-06:00Update: The blog post written by Joe Vitale's ...Update: The blog post written by Joe Vitale's buddy, which I mentioned in my 10:18 AM comment above, has now been completely sanitized. The rant about me (and about my fellow critics) has been completely deleted, as have all comments by Ron and me and other dissenters, along with the blogger's responses to all of us. In other words, the graffiti have been painted over and all is well again in that little corner of the New-Wage empire. It is as if the whole thing never happened.Cosmic Conniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09425191794680677900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31759120.post-49863311534290181612009-12-13T14:34:37.324-06:002009-12-13T14:34:37.324-06:00Yakaru, the credit card/Universe thing pretty well...Yakaru, the credit card/Universe thing pretty well sums up much of the New-Wage business. People seem to be impressed by scientifical talk as proof that the talker is knowledgeable about the mysteries of life. <br /><br />I confess to not knowing much about quantum physics myself, but I have heard and read a lot of quantum *fizzicks* from New-Wagers, and I know just enough to know that most of them don't know what they're talking about either. Thanks for providing that link.Cosmic Conniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09425191794680677900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31759120.post-30927385908164268672009-12-13T14:29:36.925-06:002009-12-13T14:29:36.925-06:00Callistathea, thanks very much for sharing your ex...Callistathea, thanks very much for sharing your experience. And I'm glad you're enjoying this blog.Cosmic Conniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09425191794680677900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31759120.post-91799079783489164892009-12-13T13:34:46.693-06:002009-12-13T13:34:46.693-06:00Write your credit card number in the box if you tr...Write your credit card number in the box if you trust in the universe. That sums up The Secret pretty well.<br /><br />Also, the "quantum fizzicks" that these people talk serves to filter out anyone who might later ask tricky questions.<br /><br />Anyone who listens to Ray's version of it and thinks "Wow, he really knows a lot" is exactly the kind of person he wants. Anyone who actually understands the subject even at a very basic level will become irritated and walk out, and take their doubts with them. Ray (or whoever) doesn't want people like that rocking the boat.<br /><br />Here's an article outlining a few of the differences between real quantum physics and its new age Doppelgänger.<br />http://skepticreport.com/sr/?p=555Yakarunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31759120.post-6507696261993325252009-12-12T19:24:58.088-06:002009-12-12T19:24:58.088-06:00About three years ago a friend of mine had two fre...About three years ago a friend of mine had two free tickets to a James Ray seminar. Back then I was open to New Age ideas and had a lot of books on the subject, but always had a nice healthy sceptical streak (thank goodness). <br /><br />Before the seminar started, I noticed a man with a big, cheesy used car salesman-type smile plastered on his face talking to people. I swear, he NEVER stopped smiling. My friend told me that was none other than James Ray. <br /><br />We were given some literature and forms for merchandise before the event started. One of the first things JR asked is if we wanted to change our lives and had trust in the Universe, we would put our credit card numbers on the form right now!<br /><br />He said we weren't commiting to anything yet, and we could just rip it up at the end of the seminar if we wanted to, but did we have the trust in the Universe to just put the numbers on the form now?<br /><br />I was very annoyed, it seemed like the tactics of a high-pressure salesman and not a spiritual teacher. My friend put her's down immediately, but I left mine blank. <br /><br />He went into a long speech about quantum physics and all the Secret mumbo jumbo and how you can manifest anything you want with postive thinking and collapsing atoms from waves to particles and then into money, or something like that. <br /><br />At the end he told people that the first 30 people who ran and signed up for a CD or seminar would get a free gift, first come first served. People were out of their seats scrambling to get into line first (including my friend, *sigh*.) <br /><br />I was very open in those days to metaphysical concepts and always would give people the benefit of the doubt, but the whole thing made me really dislike James Ray, and I declined the next time my friend invited me to another seminar.<br /><br />I've become more and more sceptical these last few years, and now I think the whole movement is a complete sham. It's horrifying to hear people blame the victim in the New Age movement, or go into complete denial when their beliefs are challenged by reality. <br /><br />Thanks for this great blog, I've read Barbarah Ehrenreich's book and I think she's spot on when she says the whole idea that money will just come to you if you are in 'vibration' with it has hurt our economy and is partly responsible for the financial mess were in now. <br /><br />Just say no to gurus and postive thinking 'teachers', just trust yourself and basic common sense!! K?Callistatheanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31759120.post-75875775023307798302009-12-12T10:18:22.157-06:002009-12-12T10:18:22.157-06:00Good points, Yakaru -- all of them. In any case I ...Good points, Yakaru -- all of them. In any case I modified my initial opinion somewhat after seeing the longer interview with Melinda on Nightline. I've read Salty Droid's latest posts too. The Colleen Conaway case is particularly haunting because the party just went on even though James and some staffers knew something was seriously amiss. And that does point to the possibility that they were already very practiced in damage control. <br /><br />By the way, my tendency to vacillate on some aspects of this case has earned me the description of "incoherent" (as well as being possessed of a "second-rate mind" from one of the close buddies and business partners of one of my favorite snargets. He wrote a long screed the other day and got lots of comments. Ron and I joined in. If any of y'all have time to kill, read it and read the comments:<br />http://patobryan.com/blog/?p=586Cosmic Conniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09425191794680677900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31759120.post-80298835507583902572009-12-12T06:00:00.534-06:002009-12-12T06:00:00.534-06:00A couple of thoughts on the Melinda Martin story:
...A couple of thoughts on the Melinda Martin story:<br /><br />I don't think there's any need to be suspicious of her good media skills, because I imagine ABC chose her over others partly because of that. It's also to be expected that a Death Ray staffer would be good looking and well spoken. I don't think Ray chose her for her spiritual qualities...<br /><br />Interesting indeed that she doesn't seem to have done many of Ray's groups - so she isn't emotionally fixated on him like the rest of his team. Ray slipped up there, letting her get to a position of responsibilty without first dismantling her personal integrity.<br /><br />I also don't think she was necessarily "enjoying her 15 minutes", because speaking out publically in a case like is still quite a risk. Remember, Ray still hasn't even been charged, and has Clinton's fixer standing by him (albeit from a safe distance). He would be a very nasty enemy to have indeed.<br /><br />Also interesting that she mentioned the incident from a previous sweat lodge where someone called 911 and Ray was "outraged". He had clear warning that what he was doing was dangerous, and made it clear to his staff that he would not be stopped this time.<br /><br />The way they abandoned Colleen and tried to cover it up suggests to me that this was standard procedure for Ray's team. They didn't seem shocked or scared. Instead, they confidently seemed to know exactly how to deal with the situation. (JRI staffer Michele Goulet, shortly after leaving a message for Colleen on the cell phone that they themselves had collected from her, somehow "knew" to then call mall security - a strange sequence of decisions. She never asked the participants of anyone had seen Colleen. Rather lied that Colleen was "fine and decided not to return to the group".)<br /><br />--See Droid's latest.-- <br />http://saltydroid.info/143/<br /><br />If Colleen hadn't told her family she was doing a group with Ray, it would never have become news. What else have these rats covered up?Yakarunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31759120.post-75490931032811325042009-12-09T17:38:18.751-06:002009-12-09T17:38:18.751-06:00You're welcome, Cassandra -- and thanks for co...You're welcome, Cassandra -- and thanks for continuing to explore this case in creative new ways.<br /><br />There's still a part of me that wants to believe there was no malicious intent on JAR's part, but hey, while they're investigating, they might as well look in his basement (do they have those in Beverly Hills?) and dig up his back yard in Oklahoma. Hey, it couldn't hurt.Cosmic Conniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09425191794680677900noreply@blogger.com